Because all the little guys have Liquor Stores they can convince them to carry their product every four years less supermarkets decide that is the big market and they want a big chunk of it so why should they offer convenience at a lower cost . And not worry about the jobs i think theres 11,000 jobs so they passed a bill we have 25 million we will take all or we can do the compromise to phase it in every Supermarket Chain will have five new Liquor Stores said five more or Something Like that. Very large and Liquor Stores to buy in scale and it will be very hard on the small Liquor Stores that roughly half of those say it is the best compromise is we cant get a also talking to the brewers. They opened and made their investment with their life savings now we will change the law to give it to a Big Corporation . That drives me nuts but yet many of the small Liquor Stores think this is the best deal they will get and i feel absolutely sure if i veto to lead the charge we would overturn as colorados love Small Businesses supporting Small Business but what happens in two or four years and i about of office . I am not willing to commit but i do lie awake at night thinking about. The second question was about fracking. No. [laughter] that was what if i do next . I never thought i would be in the restaurant business. I never thought i would go into elected office. After looking into it i jumped into it but i dont know what is next. I will probably go to private sector somebody had the challenge for the foundation Something Different i have wondered to careers left but what in terms of fracking commented colorado the people who own the mineral rights are different than those who have the surface rights and our constitution protects that private property that is guaranteed by lot to access those minerals. In many cases people are living much further from town. They get the 35acre ranch they scatter all over the Eastern Plains on the front range where there happens to these be the ability to get large amounts of oil and natural gas. That is a very rapid transition fuel a major reason we are transforming south coal plants into a natural gas plants so you have private property we have protected. With the 2500foot setback somebody owns those mineral rights over than normally over 10 or 12 years but now somebody has a home there . That is unfair so we have an obligation to protect that private property. If on the ballot they talk about signatures to make the setback of many residents 2500 feet with that passes essentially that will take away all large amount of peoples private access i think that would go all the way to the Supreme Court for there are exceptions every lawyer says they will have to come back to make good end paper co with the power line or that conduit and to pay the value of the private property so lets figure out a way to pay people you pick that shoot thorniest problems that there are. This is the end of the book and also where the rest of my life begins where we go from here who knows for crowfoot this so to use super governor gideon up. [applause] [inaudible conversations] host eric fair thanks for sitting down to talk about your book. Your book is a story about u. S. The interrogator engaged in circumstances in iraq. In the story much more than that. Can you start off by giving a little what the story is about and why you decided to write to this book . Guest the question of why is interesting. A part of me wishes that i havent the story that i dont have to tell the there is an obligation a started talking in 2007 with the Washington Post i have been at this nearly 10 years with the same kind of values with what motivated me so that obligation to continue to write with the law under formats was the creation of the of book. I have been now for over a year and the narrative of what had gone and what frankly i had done as a soldier i had an obligation to the truth then they saw the narrative as an isolated incident it hadnt happened the same way we thought it did. In pennsylvania talk about your relationship with Law Enforcement. I grew up in the old dying steel town with the Presbyterian Church like humility in to have large displays of affection and far more importantly loves to veterans even older men went call me by my first name or mr. Fair it was a safe and wonderful place and is still important if they were to spend far more energy in time it was a beautiful kind of institution associate dia in places to serve in the military was strong. This was the 1990s before it decided to join but as i looked into the military about many of the same things like in church to take care of each other with the place of protection in to this noise about the troops it is so incredibly familiar. That is interesting you listed 1995 for the next five years of your life in the army tell us about that and your experience pop the path for you in your career i talked about feeling protected in the church that is what i wanted to do for others in so joining the army was a means to an end to be a police officer. The best way was to the veterans preference points then after four years of of college than there were operations in kosovo, with the etf that armies would be engaged in the land battle was the thing of the past people were suggesti that every future war would be fought from the air. So i spend most of my army time in training and the next three year four years in places like tennessee and North Carolina so when 2000 came round of violence mitt was up it was getting boring and i felt the call for Law Enforcement and i tried to find a job as a police officer. Rabil read a passage from your book is is about one of your training exercises so i have that here the idea what to read that . And will see if that is one of the first entries that you have the interrogation it is the subject of your books. With those exercises available in cent is more likely to recapture than the average soldier. That was essentially a Training Program . To first evade resist and escapes so you are behind enemy lines in this portion is where you are subjected so here were retried to evade so once captured your taken to a detention facility they tend to be enemies they have personal files they know everything they threaten families by name and at night they play loud music of gore brings in the recording of his infant son crying over and over also crazy train your strip naked to stand out in the cold than they take our coats were promised more meals and warm beds if we cooperate they say everyone breaks down underdress it always has worked and it always will it just takes time. For in this to be the first entry point has a soldier that would shape your views on interrogation but you also describe it you are treating as a valid experience point with you in the other thought i had was just now knowing in retrospect in though water pouring was reverse engineered as it was designed the soldiers to resist torture as they were captured by enemy forces. So can you respond to that . To reinforce the idea is that we were essentially the good guys and they could teach you what it would be like but yet it was still a stressful environment in people did break down and had difficulty emotionally dealing with it. At the end region as your under the notion you are under the military so the idea of is with the wake of 9 11 to a few days after an 11 and now we have to work in the only way to infiltrate is due join them and i think that is into we should be but quite frankly i was an agreement i try not to have Great Respect for even in the interview to confront the vice president. Industry said it out loud that it was implemented i have no idea that these tax techniques were navigated with the in his Interrogation Program it ted lohan of any direct experience but i also know if the intention was to work on the shadows it didnt need to come from the school or from the outside with how to torture the human mind is where those techniques have come from better and no doubt would have mattered. Host we will get back to your narrative so i am curious. And how that transition in your life is in pennsylvania and that this idea of calling lawenforcement applied to a number of different agencies but maya and holding town of bethlehem was the first and i love the job of Law Enforcement you could almost read like a ministry is certainly an did keep a moment of trust in two shades the direction they could very quickly calmed down to transition much more quickly but he would know the officer that may come in the star by yelling or screaming and it was a way to get people riled up. To take somebody increases it was incredibly compassionate and professional and it was the perfect job now i was eventually diagnosed with a heart condition and was perfectly healthy i applied for another position they required extensive physical which discovered a heart murmur and it turned out cardiomyopathy that was pretty severe that instantly ended my Law Enforcement career. So i was devastated. All of those things i had of the sins of the military in the community suddenly it was wiped away. This was posted 9 11 with the runup to the invasion at this point. Now there was a war in iraq every could reel list with a heart condition. At this point with the insurgency there was a recognition we did not have enough soldiers to accomplish that task at hand in with Language Training that allows the contractor to qualify this is why a specific individual is qualified so we wanted to get better quickly i rise in january 2004. Tell us about the contract you signed up with into maybe also into i was struck the reporting lines of authority in the book but at the same time that it was hard to tell if you are a contractor remember of of military to not be as role was familiar with the company might. To work for a company that we called khaki intelligence was most of the contracts but there were asked to find a new division called human in tablet intelligence for human interrogators theyre bringing over analysts and screeners that would be the prisoners first then taken to the interrogators. I remember in basic training we were out raking leaves one day. So we were talking and i remember our drill sergeant flying across the grass screaming at us to get away from civilians. He didnt want us to of contact with the outside world but we watched him who was just horrible to west stood and spoke very respectfully to the civilians in the the directions that she was an underlying as it was drilled into your head from the start your the chain of canadian but there is always of total of the president of United States isnt always in civilian clothes. So you recognize the civilians in this was a complication in bay view guess outside the chain of command. And the contractors in most of us in listed but even when we were out of uniform we found ourselves acting the way we had before in the staff sergeants so that was a bizarre type of interaction between the two then you arrived in baghdad and then tell us about yahoo gray band may be the first time that things were not quite what they should be . I am vastus question and a lot and i try to think about i a remember pulling into the prison i remember who i was standing with but it was disorienting. Many of us had the impression and of vast number of prisoners were in outdoor camps. But my image was very much of the first goal for of images of the iraqis surrendering back behind enemy lines are the front lines to be processed back but here we were easily one of the most dangerous parts of iraq at the time halfway between fallujah and baghdad in this was not maya impression how the prisoners of war camp was run you didnt interrogate them in the combat zone the more important the safety of the actual prisoners. Had even before i thought of the issue most were confused by why it had been arranged. You talon interesting story about receiving these prisoners for interrogation in getting little to nothing to engage in these activities and in most cases they did think they would set back it was a confusing place and of course, everybody would deny having done it and then to move on to their next mission then they would end up at abu ghraib in the process with paper work but a majority had the phrase of a detainee to be suspected of anticoalition activity. Try to figure out what their involvement may or may not have been coming an come and in partr anticoalition activities and, you talk about how in the book the first few weeks use wouldve had a sad story about recommending detainees as not being a threat to the Coalition Forces. You get called in. Tell us a little bit abou aboutt experience. Experience. It was impossible to know. There were people that were part of this and it deserved not necessarily deserve to be there but had access to the information we needed to get but there were others there was simply no way to determine why they were there in the first place where others had been captured. One gentle man in particular and this is a common theme that said his son is suspected of being part of anticoalition, but his father, his family wont give up his locations a wonderful baby we are taking the father. Then he says even i if im, which im not comin, how could i possy know where he is you tell me where he is and so i would write a detainee is not a threat to the Coalition Forces and my impression of that phrase meant is they were to be set for release and so almost all of my initial interrogations i interry recommended these guys knowingly for the release and i was pulled in and told that this is what was happening. And again my connection to this mission be leaving and its so strong i didnt want it seen as the guy recommending it for release so i went on and changed it. So even the men i did interview as threats we have to write as a potential threat to the Coalition Forces. So in the traditional line of rapport based on interrogations when did the interrogation start to cross the line in your mind . I know this has been a shifting line as you look back over the years by them. Since what you saw. I didnt think about the lines there were not discussions. As you mentioned i spoke arabic and i still need a translator in the beginning to get through some of i forgot some of the language. Once they realized i spoke they were desperate to talk to me about the conditions in the prison and seeing the family. And i could hold a long conversation. Torture is an enhanced interrogation but you can hear it in these interrogations. You can hear the plastic and guy is talking about stress positions and food deprivation, when do i have to let them sleep. They are talking about food and isolation and deprivation and not behind closed doors. Its as if we were huddled together and if somebody walked by he wouldnt talk about it, so i was well aware that these techniques were being used. It wasnt something i considered the longer that i stayed to present the longer the frustrations were and even though i was a contractor still a part of that mission i was obligated to try some of these techniques. You talk about at one point in the book. You talk about the folks tell us a little about that. Guest anyone that wore the uniform and listed will understand this. The type of soldier that served in the 90s he called derricks and we knew had managed the seals manuals by heart, there is one for everything, from cleaning your weapon to put in your uniform on the right way of fixing the helicopter. So we used to have motor pool mondays and everyone would have to go out and check the humvee and check the air in the tires and the loyal levels. There was someone there with the field manual in hand. Everyone made it inefficient and this wasnt the way that the army kind of worked in an efficient way. We dont operate by the field manual, we operated by getting the Mission Accomplished into doing what we are told and whats necessary. While there were some discussions about recognizing that there are certain, the field manual said that certain procedures in which you are to glean information there is also the discussion that we need to be creative and here i was hearing about an interrogator that had been successful but the message was again if the insurgency continued to grow we need information and to im not going to sit here and say that i was ordered to use the position that this wasnt done in isolation. I wasnt a lone wolf and this is what we thought we were supposed to be doing. There were pressures to get information and get it fast. I wonder was very conversation about these kinds of techniques that are out of bounds across the line and is that in the consciousness . I remember a specific conversation one of the things you were not allowed to do is threaten the life of a prisoner. You couldnt say if you dont talk im going to shoot you. There were discussions about can i do things that would frighten the prisoner or make the prison are afraid for his life without saying directly could i say to him if you dont cooperate with us we are going to send you to egypt or to a place where you may be executed us of the messagwith themessage being if t cooperate. And we were not sure. And i say that only to illustrate the absolutely worth thinking even within this world of the enhanced interrogation we were thinking of the lines and limits. But yes there were absolute discussions. It wasnt as if there were open season and you could do anything you wanted. In which respect we know there were places that was open season and id like to think that if i had seen some of the things that had been recorded like the disco rooms and blinding light and the use of dogs and people being put on hot exhaust pipes and burned because of my own actions and things like sleep deprivation i dont know that i would have been able to stand up and say something. You tell the story of being pulled out of the middle of the night. Tell us about that and what you experience to bear. The vast majority were held in camps but it is a basic prison facility within abu ghraib and it was worth were tt of higher value target for the highranking regime suspected of still at this point suspected of knowing something about chemical