How this is shaped regionally , obviously, shaped the plain tribe that was involved and nature of warfare and weather and how they interact but its a great book and you know when youre in it, that hes a guy pulled into the character of kuster and pulled into the character of, you know, crazy horse and you know and understands he was so good. But i can pick out a bunch of other books and tell you but id pick this one too. You know, and wouldnt even be necessarily a history book. But again wonderful first man of rome series. That book on politics and intrigue and roman war it is better than any history written at the time and theres wonderful, wonderful histories. But boy, what a tremendous historical l novel, and you learn a lot from it. Congressman tom cole thank you. Thank you enjoyed it. Cspan created by americas Cable Television company and brought to you as a Public Service by your cable or satellite provider. Afterwards is next, california senator Barbara Boxer discusses her book the art of tough which looks at her life and career in politics. Shes interviewed by senator amy of minnesota. Barbara boxer what an honor it is to be here with you one of my mentors in the senate as someone who came into the senate when had there was barely a woman to be seen. And you were there and this book that you written the art of tough really tells your story of how you got there. And barbara levy at the time leavey. Born on november 11th, 1940, from a family of jewish refugees in your own words growing up in the pervasive shadow of the holocaust somehow ends up going from that, a little place in brooklyn to the United States senate maybe moved to california in between. [laughter] and you did it all with such grace but also with that art of the tough. So do you want to talk about what that was like growing up with your stories of your family and how you ever decided to take this journey. Well senator and my colleague amy, you said it was an honor to interview me. Im so excited that you agreed to do this. Because it says a lot about our relationship, the warmth that we share and im so thrilled and as you know, im going to get to your question in just a second. [laughter] but the fact is the warm thrips developed between women senator and frankly a lot of men barbara calls gal head mean so much to me and people say why are you disgusted with place not at all. But after 40 years there are people like you who can carry the banner. So we have colleague from new york who ranks forward to the book, we have you interviewing me pip couldnt be more thrilled. But getting to the issue of how did i get tough what was my life like when i was a child which you know, in this memoir when i sat down to write it took six years to put it together. Written a book a lot of effort. When i first thought about it, i thought it was going to be my dad who had, you know, all of the influence on who had i am as a person because my dad was my idle. He was the young etion of nine brothers and sisters. The only one born in america. Family born in russia. None of them even graduatessed from high school. Theres my dad, hes born in 1908, and after he marries my mom, he guess to city college of new york at night at night thats great, becomes cpa and then after im born, in 1950 goes to law school at night. Gets his degree, so im thinking, you know, clearly it was my dad. But when i sat down to think about the lessons, you know, how are you they come from my mother, and in the beginning she didnt graduate from high school. She did not. Always was such a burden on her. Felt so sad about it. At one point she even tried to get her g. E. D. I dont know exactly what happened but my mother was so smart, and the kind of smart she had was smart from the heart and the soul. And you know, when in the beginning of the book i lay out o the rules of the art. How can you do it . And one of the things is always doing the right thing. Even when everything is going against you. You and i know what its like experiences together whether its on Human Trafficking which you took the leadership on or toxic chemical reform they took the leadership on. We know what its like to people look at you and think why are you crossing these problems . Sort of tough if you know what to write, you better dot right thing, and i also learned never act out of anger you can feel anger but dont it act when youre angry. These are things that came you tell a funny story how once angry and playgrounds stand a bully with a led pencil and then next day you walk by his apartment an see a dark, dark cloth in front of the house and you think youve killed him. J absolutely. Turns outs to be the grandfather but im sure thats wifn those memories you dont forget. Its a memory that i didnt forget because alber was kind of my nemesis and he because im little you know im still little. Five feet. Three 53 maybe with my high heels i get thats what im thinking. Im so not. So he was little. So i was the perfect target. He would insult me and chase me and thats what they usedded to in those days maybe they still do in school. But i dont know one day i had had it. No one was around. I took out my number two pencil as a i say in my book and him in the art where you get a vaccination, and he is stunned and i am stunned at what i did. And so youre exactly right in retelling the story. We thought keep it a secret and he doesnt come to school and a cloth over his home on a vacant lot and i live in inner city and i really did think i killed him. So i took it to my mother, i said mom, i think i killed albert she said barbara sue what she called me when she was mad and she said what did you do . I cant believe you would ever do that, and you cant do that, and i dont think you killed him. Lets me call principal and she finds out his grandpa died i was so relieved i hugged him when he came back but it taught me an amazing lesson and she said you never use violence. You have to persuade, you have to defuse and, of course, i never did use violence. I tried to defuse a lot of situations sometimes i won, sometimes i didnt. As a young girl when you think about when girls were organizing a lot of things use led effort to get a new carpet in the apartment lobby. I love that story. You when you were my one of the favorite letters ten years old and your mother is in the hospital with some illness an youre not allowed to visit you want to read the letter that you wrote back then your first organizing effort . Right there that was preagdz. And i found this after my mother died of my dad died in their little fuel box. I wrote to the doctor because the rules that were couldnt visit their parents then. So dear doc im mrs. Leaveys daughter and love to see my mother very much. I didnt see my mother when she left only a little while about five minutes before i went to school. I have no sickness. Only a little belly ache now and then. I wont make a lot of noise. I miss my mother very much. So why cant i see her . Thanks for reading this letter. Sincerely yours Barbara Leavey so then i had a feeling it wouldnt work so i wrote a backup to my mother, dear mom how mean can a person be if they doapght let me in, they really are mean. I would be so happy if i see you. I get tearyeyed in school im in the mexican group. A study group on mexican culture in art. In fact, im the chairman. Love and many kisses to you. So i get so choked up these things because you know their memories that you and i have of our families so deep inside us you know. Exactly. I mean, but this whole idea that will any kid that can make it in america which we still believe today no matter where you came from i think thats a big part of your story but different your story than people we see in the senate is that you were a girl, and so here you are you go to brook lienal Brooklyn College an following in your tads foot steps you want to be a stockbroker because your dad instilled this in you and interviewing you around for jobs and it wasnt easy for a girl to get that job. Well they used to have a program at the wall street firm. And they they recalled because e who were selling the securities who were the stocks broarks call customers men amy. That was the name customers men. So i want them to be customers man. So i was ready it was an assistant. Long story wont go into it too much. But assistant to a woman who wrote a letter and so smart but she never signed signed it elizh Ellsworth Cook and signed it e. E. Cook to disguise the fact and i said why dont you sign . She said no one will buy it. Because it was sold. And she never became a partner for many years, and it was she was kind of in disguise it was unreal, and so i thought im going to take a different path. Im going to work for her. Get a salary because she was in law schooled at the time and i s only one working so i made 90 a week or something but i had to make more because at least live a decent life. So i studied for the exam because i couldnt get into the program. If you got into the customers man program you got trained, you got like, you know, studying for exam. I on my own i pass the test i was so excited i took it to elizabeth. And she said, well, you know, i dont know. Youll have to go to the big block. At this very old line firm and i did, he said sorry women dont do that. Shocking thing about that not only that he said it like it was you know, a fact of life. But that i took it, you know, now i just said oh, okay. But i did quit i said then i quit. And i went to another firm where they allowed me quietly to have a little business on the side where i was assistant to one of the Vice President s, did his work and i had a little side business. So i was able l to make 250 a week, amy just great for us. I think why so many times in plucks some of the some of us who came in on your shoulder on your five foot shoulders and barbara as well. We talk the fact that when you came in, it was so much harder and for young people to read your story and whawns you went through that that whe most women were expected to have a few jobs and that was secretary a teacher, nurse good job. But that was it. And , in fact, you kind of went over meeting with stew. 54 years. But you say one of my favorite quotes from the book, you say i often joke that sue married debby ren renoldss and woke with gold in my ear. Remember when we met girls, young women didnt have the kind of opportunities that we now have today and daughters have today. I know you have a great one. Hope shes watching. And so we had to settle for a lot less. So when sue met me, i pursuing y dream of being economics major he knew that Political Science and he saw some signs in those years when you had got together for a little party. The men would be here talking about issues of the day. And the woman so not to be perceived as uppity here talking about, you know seriously food and more appropriate things for women. Thats the truth and, of course, i would do my thing with with the women and then id go over to the men tack to them too. Which was kiered considered a bit odd but i did it and he knew clues that i wouldnt long stay a cheerleader that i was from Brooklyn College head of the boosters from high school. But lets be clear. You know when he met me i was a kid, i was 18, and you know going to senate you might as well said lying to the moon by yourself with your arms waving that was where it was. And then you make this decision which was, of course, monumental and history of america, you decide to move to california. How did that come about . My sister and family moved there and i wanted to visit, and so sue such a good student as he is he made a review at fordham and i went with my parents and we drove out to california. I get to california. My eyes open up, my mouth drops, i said ive never seen anything as beautiful as this. Because, you know, i joke i grew up in brooklyn which is by the way the coolest place to live now. Then it wasnt considered. But you know, i talk about how only that you have a movie called a book called a tree grows in brooklyn but grown and beautiful place and now you have more beautiful places Prospect Park and Botanical Garden but it was a city. But i came to california where environment is kind of history there. First thing you learn about california if you pick up a herself book is the beauty and the various ecology from the north of the state to the south. Whether its the forest or president s marsh land or the desert or the ocean. And, of course, we the richest farmland it is exquisite so i said i guess about 21ish or 2ish i said i want to move here and sue graduate of law school, that was wild and i said to him. Can we move . And he said why . And i said you see. Its gorgeous and a u youll love it. I cant describe it well have so much more freedom to be outside and outdoors. He said okay. But i have to get a job in advance. So he did two years in advance. We came out to california because of the beauty thats what i wanted to tell you and, of course, adversity of the state the excitement and hollywood. Silicon valley, and you know, everything about it. Its so incredible. Right. And then youre pregnant. J right. And doug your first doug is born two months early, and sue is still in law school. Right. Going to fact that they wont let him come out for the birth because of the exam. But it is a danger back then 50 50 chance of survival there you have on your own family there. But no insurance. With about that you somewhat interested in getting involved in government and politics. Well it got me interested in understanding what it means to be uninsured and frightened to death. And, of course, that feeling you never forget it. You never forget it. And i was uninsured because i thought nothing was going to go wrong. Happy go lucky everything will go great which we think when were young were not vulnerable but great immortal. All of a sudden we had agreed toughs move so i said honey ill go get us a place to live. You are finish your exam and the first day i get here doug wanted to see california thats how he was about it. I arrived may 20th hes born may 21st, 1965, and i was staying at my sisters place. All of a sudden the water breaks, and i had not even met my doctor amy. And im lining up in the clinic in mount sinai hospital i never forgot them. Took you in. Charity because i had nothing and they said you know, its going to cost 1,000. Amy you can imagine what it is for a premier they said we dont know how long hell have to stay at least a month if he survives. So im thinking this is the end of us every which way, of course, all we cared about with doug. So they said 50 50 chance and they said every day it will go up 10 . We played and out there as fast as they would let him. And that was the most wonderful gift to us and i hate to tell you how old he is now he take care of me. [inaudible] own family. Seconds job she was preemie but wasnt as preemie i had insurance that was different. But wases that a lesson that how scary it is to be in a situation where you really dont have anything. Leading support for the affable care acts and Womens Health care so most struck me during that time so youre traditional time and just as you grew up in is the shadow of the holocaust. You are now in california in Northern California in the shadow of vietnam war and not that involved in politics but learned the art and title of your book but you start getting involved in organizing taking those early lessons from organizing from karpght lobby in the apartment and taking them out, of course, to something much bigger of the vietnam war leading to ultimate decision to run for county supervisor. Yeah, youre right to point out the vietnam war because its this chore of going into politics. By that time i had two little kids as you know as a mom yourself you start to think differently. You start to think longterm. You start to wonder what kind of world will my daughter, son face and all of these issues came to the floor aired the time that vietnam war. The environmental movement, womens moment. Vietnam war. But especially the vietnam war because it was the first war they said came into your living room and you saw it. So i was part of the Antiwar Movement stew was, and we used to take the kids and march in the raids all of the rest of it. And it became a real activist. A real activist. And when a seat opened up at election where the county supervisor opened up in maroon county, california, a nice place north of San Francisco the issues were all of the issues even stopping at war. What could we do locally to do it web and the environment and womens rights. So, of course, everybody came stew and they said stew would you run are . [laughter] and i said why dont you do it pays 11,000 a year. Where dont you do it . So i ran. So it was so crazy. I came out on top a Nonpartisan Office so i came out on top. Other two republican. But you didnt run as a democrat or republican. So the about before we had to vote and i came out on top, there was a incumbent, myself and physician who was running. The antichoice issue it was working, but this candidate name was bill filanti i was excited because my campaign was going strong, come over and talk to him and let him in the door. He looks across at me as close as we are he said ive been giving this a lot of thought this election and i thought he would say because he said he started off and said you know my wife is a physician, and its been hard for her and so and so. He said so this is what i want to say. To you right now you should drop out. I said well bill ideal would i ever do that . Because youre bad for women. I said where did you get that from . He said you know the o presser has to free the oppressed i remember him saying that so whites have to free blacks from safety thats the first that i thing that came to my mind and you fight against race schism. Every hair about wect went straight up and i employ the art of the tough which is when somebody has gone over the rind thats it. So i looked at him i said this meeting is over. And as i say in the book stew and i got up. He got up and i shot the door and then i said, we actually slammed the door. What happened was he got revenge because he was so mad at me. He was the third in the kill out last and he endorsed the other guy. So if i lost that buy a small vote. Humbling, though, it was a good experience. But stories of how sexism when youre running women at door. I love the women how can you do this with four kids you said no i have two. But rumors so strong that here you are, youre leaving your kids at home what was story about dishes . So many great storieses in this book. The art of the book what it was luke to be a woman and you have to have a sense of humor about it. Because if not it was a small election. I think like you needed about 20,000 votes to win. So knock knock, whos th