Transcripts For CSPAN2 Annette 20240705

Of the headings is monticello an American Family which went on to win the Pulitzer Prize and the National Book award and she was here for her biography of Andrew Johnson and later she shared the stage with the coauthors work most blessed of the patriarchs Thomas Jefferson and the empire of the imagination. And that gordon reed is the University Professor at harvard and the genius grant and Frederick Douglass prize. In her new book the texas born historian it examines her and passed visavis her Lone Star State roots in juneteenth. In the shimmering review in the new york times, jennifer praised the book for the authors ability to combine clarity with the subtlety and showing historical understanding is a process, not an endpoint. Tonight Annette Gordon reed will be in conversation with awardwinning broadcaster, journalist and longtime friend of the author event series tracy. Its great to have you with us tonight. The screen is yours. Its an honor to be with you tonight with Annette Gordon reed. This book has gotten rave reviews if you have not yet picked it up, make sure you pick it up and you can get it through the bookshop, but we are delighted to have this time together and we would encourage you to just have some questions because weve added time at the end of the evening as well. With that said, welcome back to the free library of philadelphia. I wish i could be there in person but here we are. The book is called on juneteenth, and its a collection of essays and of course texas figures prominently all throughout the book. You are a native texan as you mentioned and you open the book opened thebook by talking abouts exceptionalism that everything is larger than life and everybody has a certain pride in being from texas but you also say it has a gender and a race that texas is a white man. What do you mean by that . When people think about texas, they think about a cowboy, west texas and cowboys and cattle and herds and so forth and its not about the part of texas that was a Slave Society where you had a plantation slavery and this notion of the sort of rough and ready individuals would be a white man because women dont have that kind of freedom and black people are not seen as both texas andf freedom. The white male embodies the image of texas so its trying to figure out what does that mean for those that are not white guys who and that is what i report in the book. On the east texas side of things we think of the west but you make the point its the east where Stephen Austin came and brought many settlers and wanted to make sure that slavery was accepted. If you could unpack that history and the problems that can occur with selective memory and origin stories. Considered to be the father of texas as you said brought settlers and was given the right to make a settlement in texas and they were people who would come from other parts of the south, georgia and alabama coming west and they brought enslaved people with them and thought that would be the basis of their things would be shipped out so there is this legacy of slavery mainly in terms of louisiana or alabama and georgia but not toxics. Even the real typical is part of the western tradition they dont think of it as the south but it was confederacy so it was part of south. It speaks origin stories and the stories we tell ourselves about where we came from and how we started and a strong tendency inandout to have a selective memory about those things. We all do that. We cut out the part thats painful and we become nostalgic when youre in it, it may not have been and we tend to do it as a nation and heroic aspects, remember the alamo but not thinking about what was implicated in what drove the conflict in many ways and we want to see ourselves in those terms but its not always a wise thing never a wise thing because you have to have a realistic picture of the past if you want to understand why we are in a particular position today because all of those influences that up to where we are now so i say the book, humans need mythology and memories but we do have to be hard with ourselves about the situations. Its one of the many ways in which texas is a microcosm of america. I say all of this in American History close, there is the issue in the slavery, western expansion, conflict with Indigenous People displacement of Indigenous People. The conflict and relationships between hispanic culture, jim crow after the end of slavery, all of those things and borders and other countries so the International Aspect is there in that particular place so theres no other state that combines all that it contributes to the craziness because so much is going on there and has been from the beaker very beginning. Its a juneteenth, its a collection of essays written by a native texan about texas and the u. S. History and resemblance to an reflection of the larger u. S. And the events of june 19, 1865, juneteenth occupies a small portion of the book almost as if juneteenth is the hub from which it all extends you could set it not that much about juneteenth or you could read it and say its all about juneteenth all through the book so why did you choose juneteenth as the peg in which to hang the book . Its a day that commemorates end of slavery in toxics and there is so much packed into the notion, the effects of slavery on the state and country as a whole, the notion of relations, slavery helps maintain and support and give justification for White Supremacy and talking about this particular day on juneteenth and chapters i talk about what actually happened that day and what the response was but juneteenth also means the symbolism of it, the substance of this moment when slavery ended, the fact that it existed is telling and what it meant for the community and the people around them starts opportunity for me to talk about my familys story the history of texas through thinking about how we come to where juneteenth was necessary and what happened after that, the aftermaths of slavery and race and politics and all that tied up in this particular day so the way from a door to open discussions about history, texas the United States but also my family, something i dont typically talk about, talk about other peoples families so i did something a little different with this and dipped my toe into memoir and melded with history. I smiled when i read you felt some kind of way when juneteenth became, it captured the National Imagination in more recent years and there was a time in which you felt the degree of resentment, tell us about that. When i was away in college and began to realize there were other people and places claiming juneteenth, i had a possessive view. Thats not the way to go, ive got totally over that now but i thought this was something that made texas unique and when you grow up in texas theres a lot of emphasis on we are unique, we are different so this is something that belonged to us, particularly black because 79, in 1980 when i was still in college then, it became a state holiday but before that it was mainly black people that i knew of in my town, it could have been other places but it was mainly black people who celebrated but sometime in the 70s it becomes a state holiday, black and white people and hispanic people of different cultures, i was very possessive about that. [laughter] im over it now. Sharing with the rest of the country. How does your family celebrate juneteenth . Well, i run up to july 4 so something similar. Barbecuing, firecrackers, red soda water, red meeting we call it soda water, pop. Before everything became coke. Barbecue for some reason was part of the menu although my family didnt partake but that was another tradition and i am told strawberry pie which we didnt do but the notion, i had read this and i dont know ideas about how traditions come to their can come from real prices or not but the red was about the blood was shed during slavery, a symbolic connection to that so fourth of july and black people. [laughter] firecrackers, i was thinking the other day i was below ten, i cant imagine that my kids do firecrackers but it was a different time. The festive thing, it was summer so we are not in school but sometimes people took the day off and theres a lot of running around and playing in it was a festive time and then waiting for july 4 which we celebrated as well. Generation, he said if it was your moms side, 1820s and your dad at least 1860 you had ancestors who were enslaved so im curious how your older relatives talked about juneteenth and work the stories passed down through the family . My greatgrandmother was alive until i was about 11 years old and its one thing i could just kick myself for not talking to her. Older people tell you these stories and you say yeah, yeah. I would give anything to be able to ask her more about this writeup the story and i spoke with the new yorker, when your i mentioned to my greatgrandmother, it did seem to me as if people were taking juneteenth seriously, acting as if it didnt make a difference and she said it made a difference to us, its important to us and from then on, from the depths of her feeling, i knew she really meant it. Her mother had been enslaved as a little girl and grieved by her father along with her mother, she knew somebody who was enslaved and her mother had three cousins, all of them died in the third one had not been freed until after the civil war so slavery was like generations to them, one removed from you and i knew somebody who knew people who were enslaved so this meant something we knew, it didnt mean everything was okay. My product was sarcastic and said slaves have a history but he meant really was there was a long way to go in terms of civil rights and citizenship for black people but for me, it was thinking about the joy they must have felt knowing legalized slavery was over. They knew it wouldnt be perfect immediately but not to have children or family separated other than in ways people lose relatives to death and things but not through inheritance from the loss of property. So i think thats why it means something to me, its not saying everything was okay, its the recognition of what must have been there, there joy. And of course very difficult times followed. Juneteenth, the 13th amendment which officially ended slavery and then reconstruction and spent reconstruction ultimately gives way to jim crow and of course black people to use the phrase, catching hell all over again in america and it was true in texas as it was anywhere in the country. You did not have to go much further than your own hometown to find chilling examples of ways in which black people were treated during jim crow times right there in texas and i was particularly struck by the story of bobwhite. Tell us a little bit about his story. Its interesting, bobwhite, i first learned about bobwhite as a little girl because my grandfather knew bobwhite. He would tell about the story about this man who was accused of raping a white woman and was tried and ended up being killed by the husband but the story involves man who had gone away and lived in houston for a time, came back and was accused of raping a white woman and was put on trial, before he was put on trial, Texas Rangers were periodically and are of the jail cell and give him time to retreat and beat him they did this until he confessed to the rate and he was sentenced to death back when you could do that for raping people. Sent him to the electric chair. His lawyers fought and appealed and the case was sent back a couple of times and it went to the Supreme Court which i did not know until i was working on this memoir. At the law school, here is a case i heard about since our little girl, i didnt know it went to the Supreme Court but the court sent it down saying time somebody to treat, with think them until they confess was violated the 14th a moment and they sent it back down for retrial and while he was on trial, the husband of the alleged victim came into the courthouse and shot him in the back of the head in front of the jury and all spectators, the judge, everybody the prosecutor, hes tried like five days later or something, they deliberate for two minutes and acquit him so here is a person who murdered somebody in front of all these witnesses and the crowd heres when i announced the verdict and it kind of broke people in the community and as i was writing about this, i was thinking about the fact that their hopes must have been raised because he kept getting trials, the Texas Court System was looking at this and think theres something wrong here they make it all the way to the Supreme Court and to have it and like that with a guy dead and his murder walking free. His story is i talk about in the book, the story my grandfather told me was that they were having an affair and he bragged about it, a crazy thing to do in the 1930s, a black man at a white woman but he bragged about it at the husband found out. This is the story, one of the things i say, in this world of black and white, there different stories, and official version of the story and been the unofficial person, historians have to look at it and decide i tried to really answer this question which i was just talking about it, you have to decide what seems more truthful than not but the idea that a white woman could have welcomed the advances of a blackman that would have been the end of her social life, maybe her life so you can understand why her husband or other people what happened pressured to say it was rate as opposed to Something Else and that was the story told in the black community so there is that incident, members of my family, even before this, there was an incident where a man was burned at the stake alive on the Courthouse Square and it was advertised that it would happen, people showed up and it was like a picnic and it was hard to imagine that people did this but people brought their kids so the town had a reputation for being very tough racially. The clan was there as well so yeah, thats why my father what he was saying is this is still a pretty rough place. They had white texans had grown accustomed to the social life under slavery and soon after juneteenth, after reconstruction, juneteenth as a matter of fact when people were celebrating, there were instances when people who were celebrating him at the patient they were celebrating so if you can think about a very tense time, a time of hope at the same time incrimination and a lot of hostility volatile, a very volatile place. I cant help but to think as i hear you recount these stories that while we are certainly not in jim crow anymore, a quick glance at the newspaper or evening news will show you to what your father said, slaves have not been freed, we are still seeing police brutality, so many vestiges of this today. I want to be clear, thats what i was saying before about the fear of having your children pulled from you, with think and those kinds of things but the legacies of slavery, its very difficult, impossible to think of getting rid of all that in a manner of a few seconds and certainly general gordon rangers, essentially one slavery is over he says black and white will now exist, occupy equal station, im paraphrasing but he used the word equality and that really set people off. Its one think to say slaves are freed and you do what you wish but to say now theyre going to be equal was a red flag to people who were used to a racial hurry are key. People talk about about slavery but slavery was racially based in the country so it told people how blacks and whites should relate to one another and even when you get rid of the Legal Institution of slavery, it doesnt wipe that out. It doesnt wipe away the social understanding and people cap trying to get us back to as near slavery as it could be, control and other kinds of ways than the lock that existed before before general rangers order and final ratification of the 13th amendment. Fastforward to later in the 20s when you, at the tender age of six, integrate socalled white school in your town it was time texas was trying hard to hold onto aggregation in schools, white and brown versus board of education, tell us about that experience. Im think about bridges over my shoulder here, thinking about what was that experience like as a 6yearold . It was intent. Very intense. I knew something was doing, something considered to be momentous. This was the 60s and a lot of us, those around us, it was a feeling in the air that black people were on the move into doing things and i was doing something, my family was doing something. They had the freedom of choice plan under which white parents were supposed to send their kids to white school and white parents black parents send their kids to box four. My mother was a english teacher and she taught at a box or. She and my father decided he figured the court would strike down freedom of choice which they did three years later, since i was starting, i had gone to kindergarten the flexible, i would start first grade at the white school it put me on a path that was interesting, to say the least but very intense. My teachers were wonderful. My first grade teacher and second grade, they were rates. It occurred to me for the first time, all i could think about that maybe it was because my mother was a teacher, i wonder if there was not sort of a professional courtesy, professional affinity which made them out of their way to be as supportive as they could. I learned later on there were threats against my family but it was lowkey, i was never emotional product medical and. Hooted as if nothing had happened but of course something was happening. There were certain reactions of white people but also black people had mixed reactions yes. It was k12 and it was a community thing. The teachers lived in the community, they were sometimes relatives of the kids, they were part of a unified place and there was some thinking what would my mother and father say if they sent me to the white school . Two of my brothers remained in the black school so they want making a comment about those schools, there is a problem with the school, they thought they were doing something and they kind of backed off from this in later years but everything points to them hoping idealistic thinking this thinking this was part of the new world and that is going to be a part of that new world and help make that new world. So dont think it is not about the quality of washington school. It was about what they thought would be the future of the country. I would love for you to read a passage of the book. We talked about this just before we started our formal interview and this takesew us back to that time when you were six years old and you integrating first grade at that school at slate would mind reading the passage it will give our audience a flavor for the book in your own voice. The was oddity of being on display. Periodically small groups of visitors, educators i i assum, which will and stan and the classroom to observe how things were going. A black child in a room with maybe 25 other white students. Not to take anything away from the teachers and administrators at anderson but it did make things easy for them. First, and perhaps most important of all, the was for a time only me. Ours been about numbers. Also, i was a good student right off the bat. In those days, people cared less about making children feel bad, i was a bluebird. The group of best breeders. There is no way to hide what was going on, we got letter grades in the local newspaper printed the name kids on the honor roll my name appeared there. My great aunt, the one who would not state overnight who lived in houston and was quite extravagant brought boxes and boxes of dresses, tights, blouses, skirts and hats from the most Scale Department store at the time. Our member opening with my mother and think overwhelmed at the number and range of choices. I could go a long time without repeating an outfit. What it must have meant for my aunt, born on a farm, even more racially Violent Society at the end of the 19th century, to be present in this moment, one of her younger relatives was about to embark on an adventure in his new world. Making sure i was dressed to the nine, her conservation to the civil rights movement. Thank you so much, i think that gives us a flavor of the time such a lovely story about what your great, great aunt did for you and her contribution for a momentous occasion. I have so many questions i want to ask you. One more thing and then i will fastforward a little more, you write about how you became something of a simple to white people, at least to some about what they felt they were losing at that time even if you werent quite aware of it or didnt have the language for that time in your life, what were they using . Whites and blacks talked about that. White talked about power, a sense that they have a special domain in the world. If black people have the same rights as white people, and what did it mean to be white . What was the benefit of being white if you didnt have people below you . Are not the first person to say this but people have observed over the years that the upper class, wealthy people, powerful people in the south sort of stifled class resentment by talking race, essentially coming for white people you may be poor, you may not have a future but at least you are not black and that was something they held onto it prevented, in many cases solidarity among people who had interests quite similar in that so once you begin to see black people getting equal rights, white people felt Something White people felt they were losing ground despite ritual of being white whether we did anything to them or not, it took away the notion of the privilege of white and black people felt because washington they lost their school, their teachers because they took most of the black teachers out of the classrooms. My mother remained in the classroom lots of other teachers were taken out of the classrooms and they lost that special bond they had between teachers and students so both people felt they knew something was changed from a new change was coming but i think both groups felt something was lost in this process. I could talk to you all evening about that. In your life that i want to fastforward so we can get to audience questions. He also by about cap texas is something of where the United States is going and what it will become. From a political view, most of us outside of texas have observed to be reliably read and get in the last election and maybe the last few, we seen texas develops what some call a blue spine, democratic area along i 35 that roughly cut the state in half and joe biden did pretty well in texas so we did not win the state and i wondering what you think about what all that means where texas is headed and where the United States headed politically. People use the word that america is becoming like texas. We talked about before, its always been kind of like america because of the weird sized image, people see it as not like america but it really kind of is. Politically, texas has been changing although saying texas is not so much a red state that people were allowed to vote, if people would come to vote and people were allowed to in numbers that could probably purple at least. It depends what happens with all these laws be put in place because of greater Voter Participation particularly so well see. The prediction is going to go one way or another will be hard because we have to know whether there will be federal Voting Rights, mandated photo right protected or not because theres been a reaction to greater participation in these it depends on what they yield, whether it would be. I was actually my next question and i curious as he walked on this play out in so many states across the country now, these restrictive laws that are trying to be put into place, how you think about that decades after the Voting Rights act of 1965 and here we are, what are you thinking as you are watching this unfold . A bit of alarm, even the Voting Rights act but even the early american republics, think about the promise of democrat republican, the idea that people would be the rulers and you have to do that by voting an opportunity to vote and the notion that eligible voters would be in any way hindered. You should want more voting, not less that part of what Republican Society is supposed to be put public monism, i mean that with a small are, for some its about whites, is not about republican values, republican and so forth applying to all people so it is alarming to be thinking about Voting Rights act, is alarming as a scholar who studies america and the founders and original notions of the country and i guess the promise that was realized after the civil war with the amendments put in place, what was supposed to be and that was a country where people had the right to dissipate and decide. One more question before we go to our audience. I want to quote you here, theres no question rise has been at the heart of the texas story. Its been four rounded in the story from texas in ways it not in other state. Certainly as we have discussed, fines has been directed against people of color and yet there is such a pride particular the for texans as we discussed early on in our conversation and im wondering as a texan, as an africanamerican how you think that you advise other africanamericans wherever they might be in the u. S. , to hold that tension between remember and present history taking pride in they call pump. It comes to my family tonight and talk about the pack all was made and i love the expenses i have been with my mother and father my brother and friends growing up in becoming white and in this who extended family i love and we made a world for ourselves in the place and that is the basis of how i texas as a whole. I like the idea of wide open spaces, the idea, i feel free us on a highway in texas playing music for the lab, i like the outside of it but it comes through family and expansive and hard one from a hardfought battle for equality my greatgreatgrandfather voter registration, i found a list from 1867. This is a participation, a will to participate and be part, the will was there in fact what sustains me. Since you mentioned family, we will start with this question from bonnie who says since you share so much of your famine in this book, have you ever search the ritz, especially origins of the name . I know my father africanamerican people typically get to walk because the census report when they first show up after slavery, i have not traced slave owners and so forth, im assuming the name the name gordon may have been from a family of people who all my relatives with a chosen it. Its not the case at all enslaved people to their name of their enslavers. Sometimes depict the name because you liked it. I dont know. I have not searched that. I know back preformed both sides but havent done the kind of research ive done about the hemmings family and jefferson family and family of my historical subjects but the something i want to do now. I know great, great, great grandparents and things like that but not about the lives, what they were doing and i would like to find out more about that. We have another question about family. Steve asks, a novel set in east texas about a black family which came out of reconstruction owning some propertyuc and reves how much a difference this made generations later. Was this true of any of your family in texas . It so h how did the managed to achieve this and what difference did it make in your own life . I think theres something to that on both sides of my family. My fathers rate great grandfather came out of slavery and he and his brothers saved their money, work and save the money. They bought ane number of acresf land, a couple Hundred Acres of land and they cut and sold timber off of it. They were big eyes and basically lumberjacks. Yeah, we still have some of that property. Some of it has been sold out but we sold timber from it. We still in recent years have sold timber from it. That gave them a measure of protection. They had something, they had their own land and own capacity to take care of themselves. On my mothers side my great, great grandmother they had a cotton farm, and so my great grandfather when, after planting he would go to galveston and work on the wharf because he could make him he hired a couple people to workor on the farm but he could still make more money going there to work and paying people to help my greatgrandmother and his daughters. Then if he stayed there. Property ownership matters. Thats one reason perhaps the reason my family did not leave the south because it didnt want to leave land behind. Ive often wondered about that come why didnt you go . This is rough places. S. Conroe was rough and livingston was not much better but the state. Im thinking it could because they didnt want to leave their land. I dont know that for a fact but thats a supposition. Question from valerie. She says thank you for your memoir, professor quickly. I have two questions. What you think motivated the legislature to make juneteenth holiday in 197980 . The second is how do you understand general grangers decision to use the term quality in the order . The first question, agitation. Black texans,he legislators push for it andnd texas pushed for i. I think there was a time when there washe at least a Movement Towards the notion of racial reconciliation. Doing things that suggested texas was a more inclusive place. I talk about this ial in the bok much more so than when i was a little girl. So the agitation by black legislators who want to push this and white who wanted to be conciliatory about this. Its a celebration, something that reflected well on Texas Special well on texas, not the backlash but the fact this thing had happened there. It was a combined effort. And on the question of let me see. Let me go back. General granger. Yes, equality. I read his biography and his biographer thinks he thought that was an important thing to do. That he understood this was going to be a part of a transformation of the south. Thats what the people, many f the people in the north thought had to happen, that it wasnt just enough to free people. You are to understand that now they were going to be a part of society. It was his, you attach significance to the fact some scholars attached enough against to the fact its the first thing he did when he got there. He right away has this order. There was stuff to do but he did that and put it out, and theres some questions about how it was announced. Some people say he stood on a balcony and announced it. Other people say his troops with the city of galveston and old people. It is probably both, could have been both but he thought it was important thing to do to establish that this was going to be a new society. Susan asked can you speak to the issue of reparations . I think the issue, its a moral issue and theres a moral right to this idea. I personally think as a lawyer, this is a lawyer in me, that if i were doing this i would start in the 20th century. I would start with activities by the government, redlining for housing, failing to protect black homeowners that has resulted in disparate, sort of a gap in the wealth between blacks and whites. Start with people who are alive, who are still alive who suffered wrongs after the passage of the 14th amendment. Clearly illegal activities in violation of the constitution. I would start with thaton kind f reparation. Reparation for slavery are sore points and not to say again there is a moral right to it but me being the lawyer and pragmatic i i would start wita 20th century violation of civil rights and that the constitution among plaintiffs for whom we have skinny. That is, people who can point to specific have they been injured. I would start there and maybe we could work our way back to it. I would not start with slavery. I would start with 20thcentury violations of the constitution. Speaking of working our way back, a question that says what are some of the biggest misconceptions about the lasting impacts of slavery . The biggest . Misconception is that they are not there. That the impacts are not there. Chief Justice Roberts in Voting Rights case Shelby County basically said that the south has changed. All this is over essentially. And how wrong he was. The biggest misconception as you can walk out a a couple of centuries of it society a particular attitudes, a particular culture and then have it done. Its not until 1965 when the Voting Rights act that we have what could be considered a legally equal free society. Thats not a long time at all. This has been a short amount of time weve been doing this. We can see from the things that are happening today, its happening in fits and starts. Two steps forward, three steps back. The big misconception is you can just cut the stuff off, and now were in a new day. This is something went to work at. We have to acknowledge that and work at to make a different culture thats removed from the society that was created by chattel slavery. A question from bonnie and this is something you write about in the book. She asks can you explain the yellow rose of texas . Thats an interesting way to put it. Can i explained . No, actually cant. I know what thats about. Thats a story that i did not hear growing up. The first time i heard about this is something is supposed to be about race and Texas History was in the 90s when i came back to visitit with my kids. Yellow rose of texas is a song that if you look at the original lyrics its pretty obviously about a black woman, a mixed race black woman, a yellow girl. The yellow girl of texas. They changed it to rose, there was another lyric to talk about rose but removed the racial part of it. They made into thent yellow rose of texas. I knew the song obviously and thought it was an interesting song, but it was written, it was a menstrual kind of show song, that was written about a black woman. It has a black man in dialect singing about the yellow gal of texas hes going to see. Now there was a story that arose, this grew out of the story of emily west who is a woman who lived in, who was from new york and moved down to texas as a servant with a white man, not enslaved. Wasnt enslaved. The story, i dont want to use the word romantic story but the story is she and santa ana, when were about to go into battle, she occupied santa ana and he was ready for the battle. He wasnt ready for battle, and so she has been spun as a texas air went in a way, but the real emily west was taken, evidence indicates she was s taken hostae by the mexican army but the notion she had some kind of affair with santa anna, much less that she did it, some people say the legend is at the behest of sam houston himself to occupy santa anna so he would be distracted from battle, that is apparently a possible story. But i s think its fascinating. And asked what work is this doing . This is an example of i think trying to bring africanamericans into the story of texas and the texas republic, but, of course, its not a great fit becauseat the republic did t allow black people to immigrate there. It was a republic that supported slavery. You have to wonder why which you wanted to be an agent for sam houston to bring about the texas republic . In a twisted strange kind of way it is a a sign of wanting to mae black people part of this sort of grand mythology of texas. It is somewhat misplaced but i understand the impetus for it. Like the black confederate soldier. Yeah, you know, there were legions of black confederate soldiers, not people who are sort of made to come to these things. Question from megan is is given your ties to livingston im curious if you can give insight into the treatment of the alabama crew shot of which is one of three officially recognized native tribes in texas, in comparison to africanamericans were treated in the same small town while you were growing up . Specifically, was it any community or shared struggle, oa did the communities actively try to stay separated . Africanamerican and native kyrgyz treated the same by the power structure of the town or did the different groups have different types of discrimination issues . I wasio born about 17 miles n alabama indian reservation. We stick a visit there. The chapter about this in the book talking about the sort of mania and a visitation of native americans in the 70s. That was a thing to do, not treating them with as much respect as making them symbols of things. I cant answer all of that, all of those questions. My connection to the alabama nation was about going to visit the reservation. With cousins and watching the sort of cultural things that they did and buying the native american artifacts, jewelry and so forth. I gather come have been there many years together its a much bigger operation that was then. Theres a casino, gaming, doing gaming. They were not doing that then. Those were off a campground and you went and had picnics and to learned about the culture and the two nations that have become one together. I think that pretty much stayed were on because they their reservation, and black people were on the black side of town in livingston. I dont know any stories of cooperation or whatever, but they kept pretty much to themselves as far as i know because they had their own land and their own way of life. And i talked in the book about my father who himself romanticize native americans and thought therems should be some connection between the two of them because of their shared history with white people. But i dont know that was the case with alabama coushattas ane black people in livingston. Dabber says, professor gordonreed, how did you see more black taught in Public Schools . It seems as if cu history classes are devoted to teaching black history as part of the american experience. Well, i think its gotten better. It can always get better than it is, but i think theyre so much more than when ior was growing , and there are organizations like Gilder Lehrman who have programs for teachers and lesson plans, all those kinds of things. I think this could be, this is a moment where i know not everybody is open to i this but there is a real having conversations about race. Certainly much more so than when i was growing up long many years ago. Im relatively hopeful about this. Theres more to come and there are more things available than ever at this point back and i know teachers are under a lot of pressure to teacher to test in certain ways but to the extent they have any freedom at all theres a lot of vitriol out of their for this because theres a hunger for it. Brian asks how can juneteenth be a. Properly celebrated and remembered by white people today . Barbecue . [laughing] firecrackers. Red soda water. No, mean the same way black people do. The same way, as i said its about paying respect to people who went through a lot and recognizing their joy, understanding the still a long way to go and may be committing yourself in whatever way you can to be part of that process of making things better in whatever way you can. We are human beings. We celebrate the way human beings do think that we eat, we get together with the family. We haveh fun and as i said this is the july 4 type thing but now its a black and white. With a book be available in audio format . It is available in audio format. I have listened to it yet but it isnt there. Ut did you do the narration. Is no, did that. I had a professional do it. But it is available. Yes. We got a question, you mentioned the image of texas earlier. What does the image of texas look like now in relation to raise and or other issues . This is an interesting time for the book to be coming out. Its not a great image i have to say, the grid failure, the Voter Suppression measures, those kinds of things. Its looking pretty bleak in some ways, but theres response to this. To this. From everything ive read, people in texas, black people in texas, white people in texas who want a better texas are committed to standing against these things so im hopeful attention has been paid to the that we are going to fight it and see what they can to make sure that the progress thats made on the front continued to be made. Thats a great note to end on. Read a couple of things from our audience. Martha says thank you for your words. And thank you, Annette Gordon reed for your scholarship and the free library of philadelphia for host. Its so nice to get a preview of your book in your own words and looking forward to reading it and finally on nicole, if you look in the question section, anyone who is interested in that yellow rose of texas story, nicole has placed a link there for some further information about that if anyone would like to look into that. So thanks to nicole for that. Professor Annette Gordon reed, it has been an absolute honor and delight to be able to spend time with you tonight. Thank you for taking time to be with us. Thank you for having us. It was an absolute pleasure. Thanks to our audience for all of your Great Questions and participating, as always, thanks to andy and laura and jason, team at author events at free library of philadelphia. Again, the book is on juneteenth. You can get it at the joseph fox book shop. Be sure to get it and enjoy it and quickly, before we go, professor gordon reed, your next book is oh, the hemmings part deux im not calling it that, but the second part of the Hemming Family story. Well look forward to it. Thank you for being with us tonight. Well look forward to you next time. Good night. Cspan is your look at government, brought to you by comcast. You think its a listening center. Its more than that. Families could get the tools they need to do anything. Comcast supports as a Public Service along with these Television Providers giving awe front row seat to democracy. Author and producer, Natasha Rogoff to launch a russian version of sesame street in the 1990s. Can you come up with an example of what turns the corner . Is that what weve been discussing or nothing that we havent discussed . I would say that just, i mean, just continuing on this theme of inclusivity, so i really didnt end that story, but what ended up happening a woman in the back of the room who suddenly spoke up and she said, you know, my name is lumilla, im from a small region in western russia, which extends to siberia, and our town was used as a dumping ground for hazardous chemicals during the communist era, so, we had the highest rate of deformity, deformities of children. So, as shes talking to the group and theyre still trying to debate this issue of inclusivity and she says i work with these children every day. I play with them. I laugh with them, and they yearn to play with normal children. She used the word normal. And she was heard by the others, they heard her. I watched her speaking and then she pleads with them, why cant you write scenarios for these children that show them as humans and valuable to society . And the guys who had spoken earlier who said, oh, you know, you cant show children in wheelchairs and theyre sitting there shifting in their seats uncomfortably and then i look around the room and i see that a couple of people are crying. And you know, this is humiliating for them and you have americans that are sitting in that meeting with them as well. Were you crying, too . I was crying, too, and i was trying to hide it because im the one supposed to be in charge. Im starting now. Yeah, and it was really, you know, an incredible moment because i didnt need to say anything. The americans just sat there and this group said it to each other and they saw, you know, it was like she was like an angel, you know, descending into the room. Into the chaos. Yeah. And then everybody just, you know, came to this conclusion that together that they had to do this, they had a sense of their responsibility. Watch the full program anytime at book