Myself, a young kid in the suburbs, going down south to mississippi every summer. That was my childhood experience. Host who happened to be africanamerican guest exactly. And i never saw that. So then i started writing because i was forced to take a graduate class in writing as part of my requirements. And my first writing teacher said you need to be a writer. Forget the scholar. [laughter] you need to be writing, its for important. And she turned me into a writer. She forced know keep writing over and over again. Because then i moved to new york pause thats what youre told to do, and i got another degree. Fine arts in writing for children at the new school. And really tried to learn the business and realized, oh, theres a lot of [inaudible] and theres a lot of rewriting x theres a lot of, you know, trying to figure out that this game is based on relationships too and how youre perceived. So then i really started writing a lot and launched a packaging company, because i realized that i wasnt going to be able to write the story, all the stories that i felt like students, my students i was also working as a librarian at the time needed to see, the ones they came into the library asking for. They wanted ten of kwames books. If i could have given them ten of them back to back just right there, given them twenty, they would have devoured them and wanted more and more. So i became a writer out of because i was told so, essentially. [laughter] and because i didnt see myself as a kid. Host do you enjoy it . Guest its painful, but i love it. It is painful. [laughter] host do you write every day . Guest i wish. I wish i did. My creative muscle doesnt work that way. Sometimes im im a week on, wek off host morning, evening . Guest usually the morning. Intensive writing a week on, then i take a week off to, you know, consume media. [laughter] and to revive. So i have to kind of go back and forth. Host whats your pattern, kwame be alexander . Guest i write i travel a lot, so i dont have the luxury that i have when i worked to write five hours a day for five years. So i write on airplanes and in hotels. But i spend a great deal of my time writing in my head. So im coming up with beginnings and middles and and ends and and plot twists and characters and titles in my head. And that can be i can do a couple weeks, couple months, and in some instances a year of that before i actually put pen to paper. Host do you enjoy the process . Guest i absolutely love it. I love my job. Host can your 7yearold daughter see herself in your work . Guest great question. Guest can she see herself in what . Host in your work. Guest sure. Sure. As can seventh graders at Granger Middle School in aurora, illinois. As can the kids at harlem village a academy. Is as can the kids in singapore that i visited this summer. The ideas that are experienced and the kids get it again. If theyre authentic, honest and real, the kids are cool with them. Its them, they get it. I think that the more exciting question for me is, or the more exciting answer is my daughter sees herself in her work. And so encouraging and empowering kids to not wait on someone else to define you for you, define yourself for yourself. Thats why the writing so important, because it allows you to find your voice x that empowers you. Host kwame alexander, author, founder of book in a day program. Danielle clayton, author and chief operating officer of we need diverse books. Thanks for being on booktv. Guest thank you for having me. Guest thank you. Next up on booktv, mathematics professor Andrew Hacker discusses his book, the math myth. 9 in it he questions whether or not advanced math should be required in school. [inaudible conversations] good evening. Welcome to the National Museum of mathematics and to a very special event. And i think were all delighted that the museum is putting on this event tonight and even more delighted that theyre doing it with the support of Mathematical Association of america which is helping out tonight. And in particular, loaned us james tanton tonight whom i will introduce in a minute. My name is john ewing, im the president of math for america, and i am a mathematician. [applause] this was not meant to be an aa meeting, by the way. [laughter] now, every professional mathematician knows that mathematicians and their subject have a certain reputation. A world famous mathematician is walking in the countryside one day when he comes upon a huge flock of sheep, and being a world famous mathematician, goes up to the shepherd and makes a proposition. 100 against one of your sheep that i can tell you instantly how many sheep are in the flock. The shepherd, knowing that there were an awful hot of sheep, says lot of sheep says, okay, ill try it. The mathematician looks around and says there are 937 sheep in this flock. The shepherd says, incredible. Thats absolutely incredible. The mathematician picks up an animal, throws it around his shoulders and begins to walk away. The shepherd runs after him. Wait, wait, he says. Double or nothing i can tell you exactly what your profession is. Now, the mathematician thinks this is unlikely so says, sure, go ahead. And the shepherd says, you are a world famous mathematician. Incredible, says the mathematician. How could you possibly know . Well, says the shepherd, put down my dog, and ill tell you. [laughter] this reputationing is not new. Reputation is not new. In 1914 william d. Lewis, the principal of William Penn High School in philadelphia, wrote about democratizing education. And he focused on High School Mathematics. My objection, he wrote, to the traditional requirements in mathematics is largely empirical. I have seen so many pupils driven out of school by work which could not have any practical advantage to them, and i have watched so many classes in guessing under the caption of algebra that i have come to believe that we ought to discriminate as carefully as possible between those pupils who really need the advanced mathematics and those who will find other work more profitable. 1914. What mathematics we teach in our schools, especially our high schools, has been debated for the past century. Often with an eye toward democratization and opportunities for students. Indeed, much longer than a century you may be unaware that arithmetic was not taught in Elementary School in the colonial period. Spelling, reading and writing constituted the curriculum at that time. Arithmetic was known as vulgar. Arithmetic was needed, and when it was needed, it was learned on the job. By the early 20th century, algebra and geometry were part of the curriculum in near every part of the country. But the Graduation Rate in 1900 was 8 . And as Graduation Rates declined, mathematics was then as it continues to be now the most difficult of subjects for many students. The debate culminated at the end of the 20th century with three provocative and quite exceptional essays written by Underwood Dudley, a mathematics professor at Depaul University with the titles why math, is mathematics necessary, and what is mathematics for. To the dismay of many mathematicians, woody argued there were many good reasons to teach mathematics, but utility wasnt one of them. Almost all jobs, he wrote, require no knowledge of algebra and geometry at all. He went on, were algebra necessary for 75 of all jobs, our algebra textbooks would be filled with on the job problems since examples would be so plentiful. This is clearly not the case. The math mystery, by Andrew Hacker which is the catalyst for tonights discussion is in many ways the child of this centurylong debate as well as woody dudleys essays. Although, i will say, the two no, sir reached very different conclusions two authors reached very different conclusions. Is High School Mathematics serving society . What mathematics should be taught . How should it be taught and why should it be taught . These are hard questions, and i believe that finding answers to hard questions is best done in open and public discussion. Thats why were here tonight. Our two speakers this evening are Andrew Hacker and james tanton. And youll be glad to know be ive reached the point where i introbe deuce them. [laughter] introduce them. Andrew hacker is a professor of Political Science at Queens College in the City University of new york where, in addition to teaching Political Science, he has taught experimental course, an experimental course in mathematics literacy. He was an undergraduate at Amherst College and received his ph. D. From princeton university. He taught at cornell from 1955 until the early 1970s, and since then he has been on the faculty of Queens College. He is the author of ten books, and a sample of the titles suggests their reach. Two nations black and white, separate, hostile and unequal. Mismatch the growing gulf between women and men. Higher education i have to ask the question there. How colleges are wasting our money and failing our kids. And what we can do about it. In 19 in 2012 he published an oped in the New York Times entitled is algebra necessary which led to his most recent book, the math myth and other s. T. E. M. Delusions. Setting the stage for tonights discussion. Whether or not you agree with the substance of these books, i am sure you will all agree that the titles are, every one of them, exceedingly clever. [laughter] james tanton grew up in adelaide, australia, and when he speaks tonight, you may detect that he is not a native of new york. He received his undergraduate degree in mathematics at Adelaide University and came to the u. S. In 1988 where he received his ph. D. In mathematics also from princeton university. After teaching at st. Marys college in maryland, an exceptional liberal arts college, i might add, he followed his wife to boston where he spoon turned his soon turned his attention to the general state of k12 mathematics. Eventually, he found himself at a private school in southboro, st. Marks, where he founded the st. Marks institute of mathematics. Then on to washington, d. C. Where he served as visiting mathematician and hen the mathematician in residence. James consults with schools all across the globe on the teaching of middle school and High School Mathematics. He is also the author of a number of books solve this, mathematic activities for students and club. And also the author of two worldless puzzle books. Without words and more without words, both of which, im told, are being presently translated into serbian. [laughter] they are. I had offered to complete the translation for him tonight, but james is also part of the global math project with the goal of initiating a fundamental be change in the way we perceive and enjoy mathematics. Tonights presentation will be divided into six segments, two 15minute presentations by each of our speakers to lay out the case, two 8minute responses from each, and then questions and answers from the audience. Well, actually, the questions are from the audience, and presumably the answers are from the speakers. [laughter] followed by a short time for people to come up and talk individually with the speakers tonight. My job tonight is to keep us on schedule, and i will do so with ruthless resolve here. So i would like professor hacker to begin tonights presentation. [applause] thank you, john. And it is a pleasure to be here. I may be the only nonmathematician in the house, but thats the reason im here. I will say at this point it is not my intention, any of you who are math teachers, to put you out of business. I think yours is a grand and glorious calling. There are a total, at last count because im a statistician, 217,584 teachers of mathematics in this country. Its a sturdy profession. I dont think it has anything to fear from me. Now, im a political scientist. And the chief job of political scientists is to analyze policy. Particularly governmental policy. And even more particularly, governmental policies which require everyone to do a certain thing. Very simply, if youre going to drive a car, you have to pass a test. The government says that. Youre going to have a child hi, back there the child has to be vaccinated. We understand that. What interested me, therefore, as a political scientist is an effect of governmental policy that we have which is that every single young person in this country will be required, required to take a full sequence of mathematics. Starting with algebra, geometry, precalculus and, for many, the ideal is to have everybody study calculus. And my simple reason for being here and simple reason for writing my book can be summed up in one word. I understand we have some visual aids here. All right . I only learned this last minute, so i brought one of my own. May i put it down. [laughter] thank you. And you may keep that up while im talking. Okay. [laughter] we currently have another statistic, four million 16yearolds, and the goal is to have every single one of them enrolled in algebra ii. We have coming up the common core, and the common core is, by the way, the common core is for everybody. They say career or and collegeready, but everybody has to pass the common core tests, and they are tests which are going to be conducted nationally. And algebra ii is going to be there. Well, were going to be in for some problems. We already have some. The math requirement, the math hurdle, if you like, takes a tremendous toll every year. We rank in the United States very low among developed countries, about 20 of the 28, in the number of our young people who finish high school. Yes. Our High School Dropout rate is 20 . One out of every five young people or older people in the street has failed to finish high school. The major academic reason for that is failure, failing a math class. I know there are other reasons, prison, pregnancy, but the academic reason is. We dont keep exact figures on, but joe boller whose work you may know has concluded that a majority of students eventually fail one or another math course. Now, is this because theyre indolent . Because theyre stupid . Be or is it because or is it because were asking something of everyone that we really shouldnt be requiring universally . One out of five dont graduate from high school. Of those who graduate from high school and go on to college, 43 do not graduate. Its actually close to 45 . Yes. This is one of highest College Dropout rates in the advanced world. We have more colleges per capita, but we have fewer people finishing college. Why . Because colleges mindlessly require mathematics of everybody even if youre going to major in poetry, modern dance, interior design. You still have to pass an algebra test to get onboard. Now, we have a fantastic talent loss here. Were shooting ourselves in the foot. People who would be really very skilled, talented in all sorts of fields are not being allowed to proceed or even at the junior college. Somebody who wants an associates degree, certificate in cosmetology. You know, in industrial design. No be, not industrial design, lets say commercial art, you know . Even they have to pass a math test. And as a result are, our attrition rate at Community College is just savage. Something else too. We hear reports, act came out with a report just about a year or so ago saying 43 of people taking act thats the college test are not college ready. Can you say, goodness . 43 taking act, the college test, are not collegeready . You know why . Because collegeready requires advanced mathematics for everybody. And as a result, some very Good Students who might be my College Class wont be there because of this requirement. Now, my book is called the math myth. And, in fact, more and more i studied what has happened here, the more i discovered that people who are entrenched im trying to be kind here [laughter] entrench inside a certain profession, occupation, vocation will literally say anything to defend the status quo from which which they benefit. This can be true of police officers, it can be true of anything. And i discovered so much of what were being told about math is sheer myth. For example, theres the 62 figure. You have something called the american diploma project. Couple of years ago, they came out and said within a decade from now 62 of all occupations will need algebra. Well, as woody, you know, Underwood Dudley said years ago this is certainly a myth. At most, 5 of occupations need algebra or above. And i respect those. In the course of writing my book, i went down to marietta, georgia, where i interviewed aeronautical engineers at lockheed, and i was just blown away by the way they use calculus to study the ice on wings. Fantastic things i learned about ice. Ice in mall ya is different from ice in the andes, i wont go on. But you certainly need mathematics. And wall street, they use calculus all the time to study risks, payoffs and the rest. But not be 62 . At best, 5 . Which is the question if were only going to talk in occupational terms, why the other 95 have to take it. I dont want to get too much into the question of the story, it is a story that the s. T. E. M. Story. We all know what s. T. E. M. Means, that theres a shortage of people with s. T. E. M. Qualifications. In fact, of people who have degrees in s. T. E. M. Subjects, s, t, e, m, less than half, only slightly more than a third, are working in s. T. E. M. Occupations. We actually have an oversupply of people with s. T. E. M. Qualifications. Were told we better watch out in a global competition because korea, china, singapore, hong kong are far ahead of us in mathematics. Its true. Their students score in the stratosphere on the International Math tests. Ill say this to you they score high because they work 23 hours a day. You know, the biggest illness among young people in korea, the pediatricians are quite ardent on this, is sleep deprivation. They work 23 hours a day if, and i want to say this in the best way, if the International Competitions were on chess or crossword puzzles, the chinese and the k