The openair auctions and his cousin said he would strike a blow against slavery. Lincoln, when he he was a state legislator in illinois which, im from illinois, was the most racist statement in the north at the time. Lincoln is a state legislator in the 1930s. He proposed in the Illinois State legislator a bill for emancipation in the district of columbia. That was the most forward thinking thing that you could do at the time. While its true that he evolved that he grew, he deepened, his thoughts in response to events and circumstances and reading in his own experiences, he was always antislavery. In slavery. In 1858, before he was president and his house divided, in his house divided speech, he said he is determined to put slavery on the course of ultimate distinction. Began in 1854 with his speeches in springfield and peoria and theyre very explicit about slavery. If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong lincoln was also a politician. He had very difficult circumstances. He. He had to cope with this. Of course after his death and after reconstruction there was a whole lost cause movement and the southerners and i think don could speak to this some other time took over the historical profession in the writing on the civil war and they created a mythology. Only in recent years is it being broken. This book is one of these breakthroughs in my view. I think i think youve asked a central question i hope i can come back in about a year and when my book is published and talk about this issue in detail. I think Everyone Needs to encounter lincoln again and you are quite right. Can you expand a little bit on the sentiment that would lead Great Britain toward the south giving that it is sort of counter intuitive. They abolished slavery through the colonies and everything else, and also, as part of that to what extent was any financial or other actual support given to the confederacy by the european powers . Britain was divided. We talk about britain, one of the distinctions that needs to be made for any country is first the government and then the public mind to the extent that that could be identified. Palmers and who was the Prime Minister was anti democratic. Many of the british governing class were just delighted to see what one called the republican bubble burst. This was proof that selfgovernment didnt work they were arguing with john bright whom we discussed earlier in this whole idea that they should expand the franchise. That sentiment was important. The other was of course just a concern about cotton and a lot of free trade liberals who might be antislavery would say well if the union isnt fighting against slavery then what do we have against trading with the south. If they believe in free trade, by this time they had passed a high tariff, going the other way was prodemocracy in the public of Great Britain and that was important. They maintained neutrality throughout. You. You asked about material health. And help. The government turned turned a blind eye to the construction of confederate readers in the alabama. That was one of the most Deadly Forces on the open sea. There were others there in london, excuse me in england and they wanted to do the same in france. There was unofficial help but officially they remain neutral. Youre right, those are the contending forces that were in play. To the back please. Was there any influence of the civil war in the south american countries or countries other than the european area did the civil war influence any future revolutions in those countries . The European Intervention in mexico and in santa domingo, which had been the dominican republic, seem to be precursors, in my chapter i call it the empires return. They are coming coming back to take back lost colonies and establish monarchies in different latin american countries, and many Latin Americans began to see this as a contest in which they had a stake in their main concern was about this european imperialism. They they saw the defeat of the union as being a big blow to them what we think of now as kind of an excuse for u. S. Imperialism, latin american diplomats were going to washington, begging america to defend it and to stand up for the doctrine that europe would no longer be allowed to just come in and carve up the western hemisphere. After the war, at the end of the war, 17 empires all retreat. British, north america which had been a collection of different british possessions were now formed into what we know as canada. It was a a selfgoverning, still belonging to britain but selfgoverning. Russian retreat. And of course maximilian meets his doom and 1867 at the hands of a republican firing squad in mexico. Some call it the last battle of of the civil war. Cuba begins a revolution in 1868 against slavery but also for freedom of cuba. There were a number of different complications a rough doing at the end of the American Civil War and at the ends, europe has withdrawn from the western hemisphere. There were big states for latin america in this war. One more question. We must have another question. Right here please. We were facing a world war and thats just a startling comment to me and i wondered if you would expand upon it. The union policy was that if any foreign country does anything to aid this domestic rebellion that we will rock the world in flames. So you use this raise several different times and often if you do it in front of journalists and diplomats and he would strike a match in light his cigar. [laughter] he would fill the room with smoke. Some thought that seward was a little off, may may be drinking too much and going around the bin, but i think he was crazy like a fox. I think he knew exactly what he was doing. If they worried that he was a little too happy about the idea of going to war, it didnt bother him. I think he wanted that but thats where the war had a hard power with one hand in this soft power effort in french European Public opinion. That was very much part of his foreignpolicy. With lincoln looking over his shoulder and participating in this kind of smart power strategy that they developed yes it could have very different. By this time, keep in mind they had put 2 million men in arms. This was the largest in the world. It proved beyond beyond all expectations of the world that a democracy could actually mobilize and start a war, a sustained war. They actually buy this time this time had built a very large and impressive navy. Britain had had two wars with the United States and neither of them went well. Okay the war of 1812 was a draw perhaps but it was not a victory for the Largest Naval power in the world. They didnt want a third one and there was also a good deal of sentiment in britain and they felt certain that his government would fall if they went to war with america. They had other domestic policies to worry about as well. There are people were people who were living through this and they felt that everything was at stake. There could be a world war. Our ambassador to britain, Charles Francis adams, adams, who was the son of diplomats, he was the son of John Quincy Adams and the grandson of john adams had a keen sense of american history. A direct connection to the American Revolution that we are now passing through the very crisis of our fate. It was. Thats what the book is about. Thank you professor doyle. [applause]. [inaudible conversations] good evening again. We celebrate the publication of James Mcpherson the war that forged a nation en louis masur lincolns last speech prepare really wanted to do this event because over the years i have been educated and stimulated by reading these to historians with an extra bonus on baseball of the first world series from 1903 but as one that spent time on the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and 65 and the work of these authors to help us understand why the civil war with the aftermath with regional conflicts within the borders and the boundaries between states in the National Authority and the significance of the game changer and how long it took to have a way to make them real. They often have trouble with never a. Defined it a few years ago when he was here but the work of these historians helps us with every and how we apply it to our present situation. There are no permanent victories. I said on the Supreme Court this day there shall be county case was argued and came out depressed and it is why we also have to take note of better bursaries for Celeste Gearhart the 50th anniversary of the Voting Rights act then it will be brown curses board of education the 150th anniversary of though lincoln assassination and why that was significant. Rather than do the traditional thing of having committed historians each taught cat us they will have a conversation with each other then we will have a chance to ask questions. Cspan this year theres only one microphone say you have to use the microphone over here and now we will welcome James Mcpherson and louis masur. [applause] it is not James Mcpherson first time and it would not have been teeeighteen for family situations. It is wonderful to be here. We just spent four hours in a car so hopefully we have not finished speaking yet. [laughter] but what occurred to meet is the subtitle of your book why this civil war Still Matters finishing the sesquicentennial why does it still matter . With the war that forged a nation subtitles are added to explain what the book is about because the main title usually doesnt do that. But in this case it is the main title to help explain the subtitle. The civil war really forged the United States as a nation. And also forged the beginnings of a process of the nation and we are today. In order to understand how we got to be that nation, we need to look seriously at the civil war and its causes and consequences. The north went to war to preserve the union. Is much more common to refer to the United States as the union. During the for 75 years of our history. But it turned the the war country into a nation and. Ellis of federation of sovereign states to a National Government that maintain the central sovereignty or the constitution that formed the United States with a compact between the people of the nation that remained very much a contest but that was settled by the civil war to turn the United States into the money should more than the series of autonomous states. And that is a bone of contention from the very beginning in june with the issue of slavery with the 13th and 14th and 15th amendments to define the entire basis of ethnic relations in this country of the past 150 years and it continues to define those relationships. Not to help explain why it matters to day before 1861 there were two philosophies of what kind of a nation it should be . With the masondixon line that focused on the Agricultural Society and a Plantation Society based on slave labor the aristocracy with those towards democratization or industrialization. And those that were rapidly happening to move north to him was a contest of the two visions of what it should be. And is set the country on the course of becoming industrialized capitalist nation. So i think the civil war continues to batter as a way to a understand what kind of a country we want to be. Because lincoln faced a crucial role i would like to ask what part did lincoln play to forge the nation. You mention nation and freedom. Lincoln uses the word nation five times and to speak to the point dash invent a nation or create the the nation a states rights and in the gettysburg address that comes 10 months after with the emancipation proclamation he continues to defend the emancipation and proclamation and continues to move forward in a variety of ways that one of the issues from lincoln the speech the American People expecting a victory speech. Over 700,000 deaths and comes to the warehouse to says it cannot talk. He waits outside the white house to play dixie i always liked that song and asking for word dixie it was a conciliatory gesture. And how we will rebuild this nation. And streaking in terms of lincoln growth is very common to talk about where he admits to the union that publicly endorses then is an incredible moment and John Wilkes Booth with linkedin endorsement and then to act on the threat. And then to give the vote to blacks because what is the postwar settlement . But how will they live to be adjusted in to the new world of freedom . You mentioned reconstruction. With a contested meeting after the four years of for a pair of machines that would have been. So the same way the house was before. But to completely rebuild and that contest with reconstruction everyday through 1865 but the war itself. It is a debate over reconstruction and restoration with different location and. And to have that decision will the nation of lookalike . San the ideas about that so part of the problem of reconstruction if those states if your assumption ins that secessionism constitutional even though they say those services are gone creates a different set of possibilities. For those whod talked in those terms but lincoln had no use of the status of the state as a pernicious destruction. With the our practical relations to the union wouldnt means particularly for these to have transitioned with the problems of reconstruction. One of the things that struck me is the irony of confederate success in the early stages of the war broke a 5meter the success success, the greater the notes in a distraction and failure of the confederacy. If the north could manage to win the war to come on top of other Union Victories the war may have been over and reconstruction would have been the union as it was to push the north of the conviction in order to win this war to reconstruct you can they have to adopt a much harder policy to strike against slavery in the resources the south was using to wage the war so that greater success the more disastrous and destructive fieldsman failure. But so too once the war was over the lincoln general sense of magnanimity to want a righteous peace came into play. Than six weeks before the last speech and he thought he didnt have what it would take to meet the terms for readmission and reunion of reconstruction in fact, was more radical republican that the lincoln assassination is a godsend. Would it was shocking but they thought johnson was the guy who would stand in for the partial radical principles. Between april and december there was a complete turnaround that we didnt have always needed to keep the confederacy down turned out to be critical. I always wondered about the word charity. And that can have different meanings. Normally with the former confederates but charity for all may well have done what they meant for the south that consist of onethird of the population so the radical republicans may have missed the significance. Thats right. The complexity of course, with the embrace of black suffrage there had to be a new set of relationships that nobody knew what that path was. Where whites and blacks was put themselves into a new relationship. This is a society the adn said National Federal government would play a role itself was a radical idea to see how the negotiations and would take place by which whites than blacks would put themselves into the relationship with the second inaugural and another phrase did they fight to defend slavery . But there seems to be pressure that had lincoln lived there would have been that charity for all support and dave maurer successful one. Also remember this civil war went on for four years. Would apply is it 80 in 611862 may no longer apply as a dynamic but with revolutionary change over the course of the civil war so lincolns policy is to try to bring together with the new birth of freedom that country that was launched fourscore and 7n years earlier that the clot can never be turned back. By the latter half of the war as a consequence with the consequence of destruction and to borrow a phrase from economic history with creative destruction. We forget how pivotal the election was. Root the word we havent used it is democracy. So it seemed to be private people there was democratic means the secession was not one of them. So how close was he . If that was the election and held on september 1st and im convinced he would have lost the election. Every operative republican and democrat because lincoln was the commanderinchief and it appeared to be endless to sacrifice the lives of hundreds of thousands of men for no good cause because during the stalemate in the summer of 1864 it looks like the war may go on forever and never settle anything but they captured chairman on september 2nd and the subsequent victories from the Shenandoah Valley and it clearly demonstrated that nothing succeeds like success and in this case the military success but if that had not happened military failure in the case of lincoln the book stops with him not only as president but commander in chief and he would have lost. Soldiers voted in that election. He was concerned about the soldier vote has was George Mclellan as he kept them out of four openly that is right he was cashing in the story i tell in the book that a journalist said dont worry they will vote as they shoot. That is a radical experiment by the way with a referendum but that had never happened in history before but most of the northern soldiers a few cases that were controlled had not passed the legislation to allow soldiers to vote but the other states had and we know the soldiers coated 98 for lincoln. Even the wet the beginning of the war it was probably close at 50 50 so it was the radicalizing experience for many northern soldiers no question about that. Becomes one of the issues of the election was the abolition of slavery that was part of the republican platfor