Thats the way i interpreted it. I think its a really wonderful and amazing representation of his influence. Host janet in quincy, illinois, i think we have time to get you in. Caller thank you. My husband knew him. They worked together in 1958 the glacier park, montana. Guest you worked with whom . Host janet . Janet, i apologize. Im going interrupt you. Janet, i didnt understand who your understand worked with . Caller they were working in glacier park in a lodge in 1958. Host who . Caller hebert. Guest okay. Host janet, very quickly, go ahead. Caller anyway. We wanted to know. You had earlier talked about him being in this compound. Has anybody seen him . Is he okay . Thats my question. Guest yes. He came out recently for a funeral of a family member, and apparently talked to his brother. But then his brother told people about what hebert said. I think they cut off communication. But, you know, hes alive and hes healthy, apparently. But he has host is he being held prisoner . Guest you know, its hard to say because if you went in this is what toplevel executives told me. They told the fbi if you were to open the door and say youre free, they would say were here of our own will. There was a night where david came down with a jam box and played musical chairs, and the idea was the last person sitting can stay. Everybody else youre thrown out. You are out of here. Husbands and wives are going to be divorced. He had Airline Tickets printed and uhaul trailer. He was offering them freedom essentially. They were fighting each other, tearing clothes, breaking chairs in order to stay. In my opinion, there is nothing more exsemifie the hold of scientology has. Host the church is headquartered here in florida; correct . Guest theres the spiritual headquarter is in clear water. Host and david, what can you tell us about him . Does he go out in public . He active in the local community . Guest well, he divides his time between the headquarter in california and also in l. A. And then in the clear water. He essentially is closeted in the church confine for the most part. Hes not public. He doesnt, you know, you i dont recall seeing him in public in a long time. Hes certainly not giving interviews, i can tell you that. And hes not responded to my requests on multiple occasions. So scientology has a huge presence in clear water. A vast number of properties and they have tried to make that community feel a little more at ease with their presence, but its been difficult because at one point, for instance, they tried to frame the mayor with a false hitandrun and at one point they did the same thing with him trying to pretended he had an affair with somebody. It was, you know, they have not made themselves welcome there. Host lawrence wright. Going clear scientology. Here is the cfer of cover of the book. Thank you for joining us in miami. Guest thank you. Host its always a pleasure. The next panel coming up live from the Miami Book Fair. One on the dwo. Development of america. Two historians will be up here. Nathaniel philbrick and Brenda Wineapple. Ecstatic nation confidence, crisis, and compromise, 18481877 this is live coverage on booktv as we take you back to chatman auditorium. [inaudible conversations] good afternoon. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the 30th Miami Book Fair international and our presentation this afternoon. Were very grateful. Im diane king. I work here at the school of engineering and technology, and im pleased to welcome all of you. And also, to express gratitude for the support of hoh American Airlines, and many other generous sponsors. And also, our friends at the book fair, thank you for your support and for being here. At the end of the session, well have time for questions and answers. And the authors will be autographing books as well out here on the floor. You can purchase books and have them autographs. At this point, i would normally ask you to turn off your cell phones. Right now im going ask you to please take them out and to help us keep the fair going for the next 30 years, were asking for you to text your support to the Miami Book Fair international. And the way you do that is to text to 41444. And text mbfi Miami Book Fair international and the amount you would like to donate. Then well follow up with you. In this way, we can assure that the book fair will go on for another 30 years. Its now my pleasure to introduce to you mr. David lyons who will be introdewsing our guest authors and producers. Thank you. [applause] good afternoon. Im sure you have a number of welcomes to the book fair. Im going give you anyway. We are glad you are here. This is a discussion about two of the most significant periods in American History. The revolutionary war era before americas birth as a nation, and the runup and the aftermath of the civil war. When america experience neardeath as a nation. In bunker bunker hill a city, a siege, a revolution nathaniel talks about boston. And the bloodiest battle of the revolution, and the point of no return for the rebellious column nists. Hes a native boston and trained journalist. He is recognized authority on the history of man tuck et. He told an interviewer i dont think its possible to have the death of the islands rich history. He has previous books that include may flower. The finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for history. In the heart of the sea he won the National Book award for fiction. Revenge of the whale. One of the hornbook aware. Award. He holds a bachelor in english from brown. Independent book sellers association. Perhaps his passion for the subject can be demonstrated from the july 21st block postin connecticut when he attended the launching of the newly restored charles w. Morgans americas only survivorring 19th century whale ship. The picture he posted was quote taken at the moment of impact as a kristining bottle containing water from all of the seas. Next i would like to introduce brenda wine apple. A nonfiction writer. A New York Times reviewer in august noted that brenda takes the reader on a different road traveled by many other histories of the sifm war. The growing gulf between north and south. And suddenly a multicar pileup the civil war. But instead of that usual ride wrote the reviewer she takes us on a different ride. The monaco grand grand pri x. Its history in real time. The fisa the friendship of Emily Dickinson and thomas wentworth. Haw thorn. Shes a regular contributor to the New York Times book review and the nation and editor of the selective poetry. In 2009 she received a push cart prize, a glueingen heim fellowship, and two National Endowment for the humanities. Last year elected a fellow of the American Academy of arts and sciences. A former director of the leon center for biography at the graduate school in new york. She teaches in the msa program at the new School University in Columbia University school of the art and taught cor are a Lawrence College in new york. Where she was Washington Irving professor. Please welcome Brenda Wineapple and Nathaniel Philbrick. [applause] on my way over here, nathaniel, i talked about how both of these subjects are, you know, obviously the most, you know, among the notable eras of American History. How could we characterize, you know, a comparatively between your book and brendas when it comes to, you know, intensity and relevance, you know, where both in the revolution and with the civil war there wasnt very much of a clear future in any era. Yeah. Well, i was thinking about this question, actually, when i heard about the great opportunity to be paired with brenda. And my bunker hill begins and ends with John Quincy Adams, it begins with him at 7 years old, standing on a hill with his mother then in her early 30s on june 17, 1775 watching the battle of bunker hill from a hill about 12 miles away, and later in his life he would record in his journal it was an experience an unforgettable experience. Both of them were weeping as they watched the british navy unleash cannon ball on the patriots gathered on bunker hill. What hit him the most was learning a few dais later that their family doctor, dr. Joseph warren, had been killed at the battle of bunker hill during the last british charge. It was devastating for john quincy, whose father was not spending more and more time away. He was then at the Second Continental Congress 300 miles away in philadelphia, and it was the death of Joseph Warren that he that moved him so deeply for the rest of his life, he would refrain from attending celebrations the battle of bunker hill in charleston. And so my book begins with that, and Joseph Warren is a major character one i think a lot of us dont know a lot about. We think of the other adams, the john quincys dad and samueled adams but the bookends with John Quincy Adams 68 years later on june 17, 1940 1840 the Bunker Hill Monument has been built on bunker him. Once again, he refused to attend. Yet, he watches yet once again from the family home where he sees the smoke of a cannon go off and it reminds him of that time. At this time in his life, John Quincy Adams, a president , is now a lowly u. S. Congressman who has taken up the fight against slavery. What he realizes is the work that his doctor dr. Joseph warren and his father worked so hard for is not over. We segue to brenda. Its interesting. First of all, its a pleasure to be here. Thank you for the introduction. Its great to be here with Nathaniel Philbrick and feeling a baton has been passed and the baton passed from bunker hill and its not necessarily a name hes not necessarily a name we con jour with him. You think of i dont know washington and jefferson and madison and later, of course, lincoln, and even later than that grant and Going Forward. John quincy adams was not really known for his presidency. He was more known for what happens as nathaniel says for his post presidency when he actually goes to the house of representatives. Hes known as a man refusal and that word is interesting to me because one of the very last words that he uttered was no. A word of refusal. My particular book starts with the death of John Quincy Adams standing up and saying no. And the particular issue that was a vote on whether or not to give more medals to mexican war veteran. John quincy adams had been opposed to the war. He was opposed to decorating generals who fought in what he felt was a greedy re blank not look good for the country. Here a man who served his country well both as president and then in the house of representatives uttering no and ending his life at that particular moment. For me, that was a water shed moment. Not just because of the mexican war, which is ends in 1848. Because John Quincy Adams was the descendent of john adams and founding fathers. We enter a different world now. We are not in the revolutionary era. We cant look back in the same way we are look forward. What we have to look forward to is a series of refusal for good and ill that come to be known as the period before, during, and after the civil war. So its very interesting. Kind of continuity in that particular way. That we see history as also being embodied by humans who have such a direct and powerful response to it. And the other genre contribute in a way toward your decision to right. Absolutely. Haw thorn, im interested in the fact that nathaniel haw thorn, a man who died during the civil war in 1864 was also a man we often associate with salem in the early witchcraft trials with really, you know, 17th Century America not 19th Century America. Her he was a man who met lincoln. He called him one of the homeliest men he ever met, as a matter of fact. And if that wasnt enough, one of his dearest friends was a president of the United States not one of the ones we conjure one, as i mentioned before, but franklin pierce. We think of the writer, the recluse, salem, hester print and scarlet letter. We dont think of politics. He was involves in politics, actually. It was a very political time. Whittier just to finish off. He was at quaker poet from montana. We are both from montana. I grew up in massachusetts where whittier was from. I had whittier rammed down my throat and didnt like him much. When the library of america called me to do the book on whittier, i thought, all right. I reread him and he was marvelous. I was too young for him. Besides being a good poet. He was a wonderful man in many ways and was a long time abolitionist. He was more than antislavery. He wanted slavery enended. He didnt the president in a gradual way. I was interested in literary figures whom we know as literary fill your and their history. We come to history from a similar literary place. My graduate degree is in american literature, and i live on man tuck et largely because i like mobby dick. [laughter] and he does. I wrote a little book about that. And im a fan. And like wise. Continuing and i was actually named for nathaniel haw thorn. Wasnt it said that his biography of franklin piers was the greatest work of fiction he had ever written. Yeah, it was said that. And he dedicated. When he dedicated a book to franklin piers. Raffle Ralph Waldo Emmerson took it out. He wrote a poem called the exile which describes how thomas macy, who was the founding english settler of nann tuck et just down the street from where we live is the house where supposedly he wrote the exile. Thats interesting. Nantucket has a long standing quaker community. And Frederick Douglas before well known lived on nantucket and the american antislavery meetings were held there. I never i dont remember. I wasnt there. But i feel like i remember he spoke in nantucket. Right. Were proud on nantucket that Frederick Douglass the first time he spoke before a white audience was in nantucket. His wonderful book, the narrative of his life, ends with that scene. On nantucket, we take great pride. And credit. Right. Yeah. Looking at some of the figures who are known to people as established players, when the revolution finished and the civil war, you know, was completed, george washington, for example, 1775 seemed to be somewhat of an outlier as a future player of can u yo go in to that . Yeah. It was fascinating. When i came up with the idea of this book, one of my concerns, oh, washington, you know, hes the walking marvel man. And what is he going to really, you know, be a buzz kill once he arrives on the scene after the battle of bunker hill. Anything but. Its just fascinating to see washington. A man from virginia, arriving in new england, a couple of weeks after the battle of bunker hill where and this is a new england army. These are people whose idea of diversity is, okay, im from massachusetts. Im willing to serve in an army with someone from new hampshire. [laughter] to have this plantation owner arrive and he realizes, you know, this is an army that because they have grown up with the new england town meeting, which is, you know, a wonderful form of government in which basically people argue until finally they come to a decision. The soldiers in this army when given an order would say, fine, thats we understand thats what you want us to do. Well discuss it before we agree to do that. And this drove washington crazy. Because he arrived with the misplaced hope he was going whip the people to a professional army, and it was god bless him, he stuck with it. It was not pretty. But with washington, you see the beginning where this very ingrown group of new englanders begin of think of themselves not just from massachusetts or new hampshire, but begin to realize, wow, you know, we have to think of ourselves as americans. And i guess a similar question for a period you cover 1848 to 1877. There were individuals who were kind of out of place, you know, going in right. Well, you know, those figures insight, the opposite in some ways of washington, the man of marvel. What are you going with him you come out as a rider . I had lincoln, which is the opposite in the sense hes not a man of marvel. Hes headliner in movies. It wasnt the case my book was finished. But he certainly was before hes known, hes quoted, beloved, and i thought to myself he cant possibly be as good as people make him out to be. I asked the discovery for the book there were many for me, one of the discoveries lincoln is bottomless and brilliant, as much a figure of history as a figure of literature because hes a wonderful stylist, and in many ways i think we wouldnt remember certain things in the way we do if it hadnt been for his great literary achievements. At the same time, there were those outlyers, as youre calling them, people who have been forgotten from history in a sense, writers like Lydia Maria Child who was abolitionist for a long time. When i grew up in massachusetts she was known for poem. Over the hill and through the woods to grandmothers house we go. Sort of thanksgiving poem, Something Like that. Which was fore said. I wanted to run away from that as possible. I find out not only was she an active abolitionist, but she fought for womens rights, and indian rights. But she actually wanted to go down to Harpers Ferry to virginia in 1859, and take care of nurse john brown, in fact, and john brown, i think, wisely told her not to come. But what she did was engage in a series of public letters with the wife of the governor of virginia, and they were published, and it was these were letters about slavery. They were talking about what john brown had done in virginia and, you know