Transcripts For CSPAN2 Frederick 20240705

Frederick douglass was born free, but in bondage, as he wrote in my bondage and my freedom. For my own part, i had now become altogether too big for my chains. Thank god he did. Frederick douglass has a majestic presence in our lives. The most photographed man of the 19th century. Frederick douglass stirs our souls. His rhetoric could roar like a lion. Its why he was greeted with many minutes long Standing Ovations even after he spoke and very often before we live in anticipation, dont we . Its also what he said. Frederick douglass is a prophet of freedom. He rallied the nation in pursuit of our founding principles. Quote, it is not light that we need, but fire. It is not the gentle shower, but thunder. We need the storm, the whirlwind and the earthquake. Clearly, Frederick Douglass knew what time it was. We celebrate his example today and deeply appreciate his legacy every day, giving us a north star and a path to pursue for posterity. That is why the Heritage Foundation is delighted to partner with the Douglass Leadership Institute in hosting todays lecture and conversation. The Douglass Leadership Institute was founded by bishop dean nelson in 2015. They quickly developed a network of like minded pastors and faith leaders across the country to lead positive change in their communities and influence policy at the local, state and national level. On behalf of kevin roberts, my colleague tristan dean, thank you for your partnership. We look forward to you taking the stage soon and host a conversation with our guest speaker. Our guest speaker, dr. Lucas morel lucas morel, is the John K Boardman junior professor of politic and head of the Politics Department at washington and lee university. He holds a ph. D. In Political Science from the claremont graduate universite de. Hes the author of several books, including lincoln and the american founding, of which we have copies for all of you here today in person. Dr. Morrow also conducts High School Teacher workshops for the ashbrook center. Jack miller institute. Gilder lehrman institute, bill of Rights Institute and liberty fund. Hes a teacher for all of us. Hes a former president of the Abraham Lincoln institute, a Founding Member of the Academic Freedom alliance, a trustee of the Supreme Court historical society, a consultant on the library of congress, exhibits on lincoln and the civil war. He currently serves on the u. S. Semicolons centennial commission, which will plan activities to commemorate the founding of the United States of america. In Frederick Douglass, the making of an american, dr. Morrow will explore how a man who had every reason to hate america became one of the nations strongest defenders. Sir. A former secretary fellow at the Heritage Foundation. We are thrilled to have you back here. Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in welcoming dr. Lucas morel. Thank you, andy. And the Heritage Foundation and the Douglass Leadership Institute for inviting me to speak about one of my favorite topics. My favorite, obviously, is Abraham Lincoln. Frederick douglass is a close second. If youre on twitter and yes, theres some decent stuff on twitter, my handle is lincoln douglass. And you bet that the douglass is with two ss. Lets get that right. This is in part of my remarks, and i probably shouldnt digress. But Stephen Douglass, who was lincolns rival and a white supremacist to the bone, he was actually born with douglass, two ss. If you look at ebay and we know and then youll see carter visits, photographs of Stephen Douglass prior to the 1850s. And it is always spelled with two ss. I believe he dropped the second s once another, douglass became a prominent figure on the national stage. I cant prove this, but two good enough to check. I guess i know black History Month is almost over. But its always a good time to talk about Frederick Douglass, a man who became famous for escaping a system of injustice rooted in racial prejudice. Douglass became even more famous, in my opinion, for pointing out americas systemic justice, which he found in the ideals and institutions of the declaration of independence and the United States constitution. He came to believe that these held the keys to abolition of slavery and full and equal citizenship under the law, without the political principles and institutions that made the United States exceptional among the nations of the world at that time. America would not have seen any progress in securing the rights of its citizens, whether black or white. What i consider the Long Civil Rights Movement that constitutes this nations history. Ever since 1776. Next to William Lloyd garrison, editor of the liberator. Frederick augustus bailey, washington. Douglas was americas most famous abolitionist, born into slavery near easton, maryland, in february 1818. He escaped 20 years later and in 1845, published narrative of the life of Frederick Douglass. And he added, written by himself, he had to say that soon after its publication, he had to flee the country because his autobiography and abolition speeches made him liable to capture as a fugitive slave. After speaking on the abolition circuit for two years in england. Ireland and scotland. He returned to america, but he could do so only after his manumission and was purchased by friends of his on both sides of the pond. He was no longer an outlaw, but a free man in the eyes of the law. He then edited an abolition newspaper called the north star and wrote and spoke almost daily to emancipate slaves and rid the nation of colored prejudice. He followed the career of Abraham Lincoln, and during the civil war, despite being a fierce critic of lincoln, came to appreciate the president s efforts on behalf of emancipation and black enlistment in the armed forces. After the war, douglass was eventually appointed u. S. Marshal for the district of columbia and then minister to haiti. He was a long time early adopter, if you will. Advocate for womens rights and had attended a meeting of the National Council of women in washington, d. C. The morning of his death on february 20th, 1895. Elizabeth cady stanton, a leading activist for womens rights, recalled watching douglass deliver a speech. He stood there like an african prince majestic in his wrath, as with wit, satire and indignation, he graphically described the bitterness of slavery and the humiliate notion of subjection to those who, in all human virtues and powers, were inferior here to himself. His ferocity of spirit was matched by a fierce intelligence ance that produced not only his renowned narrative, the first of three autobiography of his. I have written a grand total of zero autobiographies, but also speeches and editorials that stand as essential critical contributions to the progress of liberty in america. That intelligence that led a man, as was mentioned earlier, had every reason to hate america, to eventually become one of her greatest defenders. Douglass journey to become one of the great abolition speakers in American History began as a personal one when he decided to free himself from the legal bondage into which he was born. In his narrative, douglass famously recounted an incident when he decided to resist a flogging at the hands of an overseer named edward covey. Mr. Covey seemed to think he had me could do what he pleased, but at this moment, from whence the spirit came, i dont know. I resolved to fight, suiting my action to my resolution. I seized covey hard by the throat, and as i did, i rose. Douglass called that the turning point of his career as a slave, as he put it. When he resolved that, however long i might remain a slave in form the day had passed forever. When i could be a slave. In fact. I did not hesitate to let it be known of me that the white man who expected to succeed in whipping must also succeed in killing me. In his 1855 autobiography, my bondage and my freedom, douglass commented, i had reached the point at which i was not afraid to die. That spirit, that spirit made me a free man. In fact, while i remained a slave in form, remarkably, when his race was held against him as he exercised the legal rights of a free man, douglass never took it to heart. One time, when he was forced to ride in the baggage car because of his, as he put it, unpopular color. White friends apologized for the insulting treatment, to which he replied. They cannot degrade Frederick Douglass, the soul that is within me. No man can degrade. A few weeks after lincoln had issued his emancipation proclamation, douglass gave a lecture entitled popular error and unpopular truth. He said there was no such thing as a new truth error might be old or new, but truth was as old as the universe. Of lincolns proclamation, douglass declared a fatal blow had at last been struck at the root of that gigantic evil. The president s proclamation had given the slaves the legal right to liberty. Now they could obtain their personal freedom without trampling upon civil laws. Notice douglasss respect for the rule of law. The necessity of that those laws. He recognized that his own escape, his physical loss, came from freedom, not to freedom, even though it was entirely just in terms of the laws of nature. It finally it at that time, the laws of men. The chief aim of selfgovernment was to make the civil laws comport with, as the declaration puts it, the laws of nature and of natures god. As douglass suggests, to act consistently with the laws of nature should never contradict the laws of ones community. He understood the purpose of government was to protect, not deprive human beings of the liberty with which they were born. So douglass saw the emancipation proclamation as securing to those enslaved by mans laws the rights they already possessed as human beings, rights that human laws should have been protecting all along. This was an important observation. Born of americas own founding as a nation upon timeless truths. The idea of universal natural rights was what douglass considered an unpopular truth. Unpopular because until the 1770s, no nation on earth operated according to what americans held to be selfevidently true. Douglass noted that with the emancipation proclamation missed or lincoln had dared to apply the old truth of human liberty to this time, he has dared to declare the truth of the declaration of independence with lincoln and the american founders. Douglass believed human equality was one of those truths as old as the universe, under the pressure of a civil war. The selfevident truth that all men are created equal would begin to be secure for black americans. But it was chiefly a contest of words and not a battle of arms, to which douglass attribute did the abolition of slavery. Wrung out by the stern dictates of military necessity, he declared, it was, in reality, a moral necessity. Without what he called a principle in man, which induces him to accept truth, douglass held out little hope for progress in human affairs. For him, speech meaning an appeal to right, not violence and appeal to mere might held the key to progress of liberty in the United States. He pointed out that it was slavery that required violations of free speech, but he was confident that truth must triumph under a system of free discussion. He even affirmed Thomas Jeffersons confidence, quote, that error might be left free. So long as truth was free to combat it. Equally true, though not always equally manifest, he said it is that error can never be safely tolerated when truth is not left free to combat it. For douglass, freedom of speech was not an abstract principle, but the very engine, the driver of a society that intends it to rule itself by reason. Rather than mere force or intimidation. He knew the insecurity of self, of slaveholding societies that led them to censor males of abolition publications, mobbed speakers who argued for emancipation and even prohibited prohibited the and the enslaved from learning how to read. In gaining an education, douglasss concern for the right to speak as i mentioned, was not an abstract, considering that he and other abolitionists routinely faced mobs, even in new england, who tried to shut down their rallies. Below the masondixon line, slave states employed despotic measures to silence opposition. Slavery cannot tolerate free speech, he declared in 1860. They will have it none of it. There for there. They have the power. As i mentioned, they censored the males mob speakers. Describing a free mind as the dread of tyrants, douglass observed. It is the right which they first of all, strike down the right to speak. Ill add here that douglass would be shocked to find american universities, which should be providing a robust protection of diversity of thought. Instead allowing to harassment and even the deplatforming of invited speakers that was attempted a few years ago when i was on a zoom debate at Middlebury University with another professor. They didnt think that the thoughts that i was going to utter were worth hearing. So they tried to get the president to close down the debate again. Douglass points out that it was slave societies that required violations of free speech. This required the steadfast protection of what douglass called the right of the hearer as well as those of the speaker. So douglass proclaimed, liberty is meaningless. Where the right to utter ones thoughts and opinions has ceased to exist. He thought there can be no right of speech where any man is overawed by force and compelled to suppress their honest sentiments. Douglass felt this conviction keenly when he returned in 1847 from his selfimposed exile to the united kingdom, while in england, douglass had criticized the americans system of slavery and was rebuked for disrespecting his country on foreign soil. In a fiery speech entitled the right to criticize american institutions, douglass declared, i have no love for america. I have no patriotism. I have no country. And then asked what country have i the institutions of this country do not know me. Do not recognize me as a man. Those institutions were the major shapers of american life, the government and the church and the constitu. When he identified those by name, if you will, given that slavery could not exist without the cooperation of the northern free states, with the southern slaveholding states, douglass declared of the federal government, i desire to see its overthrow as speedily as possible. As for the constitution shivered in. A thousand fragments. This point in his speaking career, he was used to being heckled with racial epithets pelted with rotten eggs. Navigating his way through anti abolition mobs and again, this was in new england. His condemnation of the American Government and constitution in 1847 made him few friends, among those not already in the abolition camp, which was at the time a fringe element in the 1830s and forties. And until 1849, Frederick Douglass could not love a country that didnt love him back. To his credit, i believe and americas he did not hold this position for long. He eventually claim made america as his country, calling the principles of the declaration save principles and interpreting. Now and this is from an 1852 speech, perhaps his most famous interpreting the constitution as a glorious liberty document in a public career that spanned half a century. Douglass joined a vanguard of blacks and whites in the struggle to align the nations principles with its noblest actually to align the nations practices with its noblest professions. With this conviction, douglass devoted himself to getting White Americans, as he put it, to trust the operation of their own principles. In this, he foreshadowed Justice Louis harlans famous lone dissent in the infamous 1896 Plessy V Ferguson case, which produced the insidious doctrine of separate but equal. There in the lone dissent, harlan wrote, our constitution is colorblind. Neither knows nor tolerates classes among citizens in respect of civil rights. All citizens are equal before the law. 30 years before that case, douglass observed, simple d that the constitution quote, knows no distinct line between citizens on account of color and quote. He believed that the government, of all should be partial to none here. Douglass noticed a tremendous advantage that black americans in their struggle for civil and Political Rights in america and in advantage that they had, was that at least most White Americans claimed to believe principles of fairness and equality under the law. This belief was so strong that they put it in writing in their most authoritative documents. The declaration of the constitution, the bill of rights. It was there for all to see. So when Martin Luther king jr remarked, all we say to america is to be true to what you said on paper. I believe he was channeling the muse of Frederick Douglass when king said somewhere, i read of the freedom of assembly. Somewhere i read of the freedom of speech. Somewhere i read of the freedom of the press. He drew attention to the same levers of freedom that douglass saw as he lived among his oppressors. They put it in writing after all. Somewhere i read there was a time in American History when a portion of White America changed its mind about its founding principles. These White Americans were a minority of the nation, but a large enough minority that they attempted to establish a new country based on new and what they considered to be improve lived principles. The foremost of which was White Supremacy. This, of course, was the Confederate States of america. They made the enslavement of blacks a fundamental principle of their new and improved constitution. Where the old constitution, the constitu portion of washington and madison and hamilton never mentioned slaves or slavery explicitly until the nation decided to abolish it in the 13th amendment, the confederate at constitution expressly provided for its protection in several of its provisions. What lever would a black person have in the confederacy to secure liberty by the rule of law and courts . To what principles of freedom and equality . Government. By consent . Could a black person appeal in a nation whose foundations are laid and cornerstone rests, according to the Vice President . Alexander drew stephens upon the great truth, stephens said that the is not equal to the white man. That slavery, subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. Stephens added this our new government is the first in the history of the world based upon this great physical, philosophical and moral truth. Blacks could claim no civil right, no political, no constitutional right in the systemically racist Confederate States of america. They could only appeal to their natural right of revolution. So douglass concluded that the burden of our demand upon the American People shall simply be justice and fair play. We utterly repute hate all invidious distinction, whether in our favor or against us, and only ask for a fair field and no favor. Douglas found those principles inherent in the american founding. As president bill clinton said in his first inaugural address, our democracy must not be only the envy of the world, but the engine of our own renewal. There is nothing wrong with america that cannot be cured by what is right with america. It is a mark of their perception and fortitude that africans on american soil in the face of pervasive racial bigotry, nevertheless became americans, denied the vote. Most of the time in most of the american colonies, and then states, blacks still bought into the concept of government by consent of the governed as the only legitimate form of government denied membership in most american churches. Blacks still became converted to the christian faith. As douglass put it, our hearts believed, while they ached and bled, blacks had taken america at her word. All america. All men are created equal and believe on the lord jesus christ, and you shall be saved. So were intent on making a life and a future for themselves and their posterity in the United States, even in the face of color, prejudice and so after many a thousand gone. If america was not the land of these many black generations, what land could be . Douglass was unwilling to let there. Many contributions and sacrifices go unappreciated and unrewarded. Did an american past for him . Not. And african one was where blacks in america should go looking for a heritage to claim as their own. That past included the declaration and the constitution. The american belief in human equality and individual rights. That led douglass to reject appeals to black americans, to somehow recover a lost african past. He was a steadfast opponent of black colonies, asian or immigration. Back to africa as it was known. Marcus garvey was a later champion of that. He it he thought that it discounted the value of reclaiming their heritage as americans. And so he said all this late native land talk is nonsense. The native land of the american , according to Frederick Douglass, is america. This argument against the mass emigration of blacks away from america can be applied to African Heritage arguments that douglass believed, quote, weaken the s whole need on one country and quote, i think this is an important observation of douglasss for much of White American practice, legal and social gave black americans plenty of reasons not to love the land of their birth. Douglass, however, placed great stock in how much blacks had contributed to the growth of america, despite the inhospitable and ungrateful country. And so, given that all that douglass did to promote the uplift of blacks in america, he was not a fan of what was known at the time as race pride. He called it a false founded ocean and a positive of evil. He proclaimed that this is the very thing were fighting against for the better part of American History. Black americans wanted nothing to do with the color line that separated them from the rest of the american populace. Ocean douglass wrote. It was our enemies who sought to, quote, deepen and widen the line of separation between the white and colored people of this country and quote, and given that blacks were a numerical minority in the United States, color they knew had never been a help to them. What douglass learned from the writings of yes slaveholders Like Washington and jefferson and madison was that the only relevant minority in america was the minority of one. The individual whose natural and civil rights were the same as those of the political majority in douglass words. Color should not be a criteria and of rights. He recognized that the protection of the rights of a specific group whites was harming his group. Blacks. The politics of racial identity in his day diverted government away from protecting the rights of every individual and towards assigning benefits and burdens according to whatever Interest Group controlled the government. Douglas concluded i know of no rights of race suit period to the rights of humanity. A steadfast believer in equality under the law. He did not think that race should be the measure of anyones constitutional rights. Douglass believed an emphasis upon race was a losing proposition for blacks in america. Instead of equal protection of the laws, douglass declared, you lay down a rule for the black man that you apply to. No other class of your citizens. So when he was asked the misbegotten, the stupid question, what shall we do with the . When freed . He hated that question. He answered with three words. Let us alone do nothing with us. He added, for us or by us as a particular class. I affirm that the broadest and bitterest of the black mans misfortunes is the fact that hes everywhere regarded and treated as an exception to the principles and maxims that to that apply to all other men. He argued that as long as black people were seen and treated as exceptions, color, prejudice would continue and they would never be seen and therefore never be treated as full members of the american community. Now, lets think about this a little. Did he really mean that black americans should be left alone, do nothing . He went on to explain. All i ask is give him a chance to stand on own legs. You see him on his way to school, at home, alone. Dont disturb him. If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go. If you see him going to the ballot box, let him alone. Dont disturb him. If you see him going into. A workshop, just let him alone. Your interference is doing him a positive. Enjoy every. It was 1865 when douglass gave this provocative reply. A time when blacks were not given a chance to stand on their own legs. Instead, they were harassed, persecuted and even killed in their attempts to learn to eat, to vote, and to learn a trade to be left alone. As douglass understood, it did not mean to be left at the mercy of a racist mob. It meant to be protected by government no more and no less. Like every other american citizen, this was true equality under the law, which is why the vote was so important to douglass to be freed from an individual legal master but not allowed to vote was simply to become the slave of the community, douglass concluded, where universal suffrage is, the rule, where that is the fundament idea of the government to rule us out is to make us an exception, to brand us with the stigma of inferiority and to invite to our heads. The missiles of those about us. He gave many reasons why blacks should have the right to vote. But this concern for public what a ban against blacks voting taught whites regarding the humanity of black people and therefore what they were owed by their government was a long standing prior ity for douglass. Blacks were owed the vote because they were citizens. He said that by granting this right it would, quote, make our government entirely consistent with itself. End quote. On the other, anything that made black people a special case in the public eye would undermine their equality as american citizens and as human beings. This actual reinforced a white supremacist mindset. Douglass did not see how the myth of White Supremacy could be dispelled if blacks were exempted from rules that apply to everybody else. With him. Color, prejudice was the great enemy of racial progress in the United States. And so most of his public efforts on behalf of civil and Political Rights were directed to promoting policies that eliminated government distinctions based upon race. So he thought, instead of living as an exception to the rules that applied to others, all blacks should integrate with the majority white population as much as possible. They should endeavor, quote, to make themselves and be made by others a part of the American People in every sense of the word. Whites needed to recognize this, that their destiny was tied up with the destiny of blacks. And he encouraged blacks to avoid self segregation. We should distribute ourselves among the people, build our houses, where if they take fire, other houses will be in danger. Common dangers. Create common. Safe guards. Near the end of his life, he put it this way. It is better to regard ourselves as a part of the whole than the whole of a part. It is better to be a member of the great human family than a member of a particular variety of the human family. For douglass, the way to eliminate racial bigotry was to become part of the wholeness upon which america was founded. This led him to preach the principles of human equality and the equal rights of americans citizenship. I believe that the extent to which race remains a part of our laws and institutions may explain why we fall short of reaching unity as american citizens. Achieving that elusive unum out of the pluribus that is our manifest diversity. We as a people. So as we reflect upon the life of Frederick Douglass, may he serve as a guide for our own time. In honoring douglass, we honor the best america has to offer in the service of human equality and our constitutional way of life. Thank you. That was fantastic. Lets give another round of applause for dr. Morrell. Well, i. I that you all have learned a lot today. I know ive learned more. I want to start off just with this thought, dr. Morrell, and that is you mentioned and it was mentioned about Frederick Douglass being the most photographed person in the 19th century. He was, by all accounts, a superstar star. I mean, he was a celebrity of his day. Even today, he is embraced by virtually everybody. I mean, all political spectrum. So if you are a libertarian, they claim douglass, if you are a modern conservative like myself, we claim douglass. If youre a liberal, you claim douglass. Explain why you think that Frederick Douglass just has this universal appeal. Yeah, i would say qualify that with just a little bit by saying that there are some in america who dont claim douglass precisely because hes so liberal in his understanding of what all human beings deserve and what in particular all american citizens deserve from their country, from their government. Some are so shaken by the ways the manifest in many ways this country has not been just towards everyone that they have rejected and given up on america. Martin luther king and bring them up again spoke about that in the early sixties, that there is a group of in particular a group of black americans who have just said weve had it. Weve given you enough time to write your ways. And were just were just done. Were just done. We dont believe in america anymore. Interestingly enough, douglass started there and he should know he was born enslaved. Okay. But he came to realize that the answer to the problem was actually in the very government, the very institute that were created by a slave holding generation. But i think his universal appeal comes back to what i would consider the universal appeal of the selfevident truth of the declaration of independence when it does, all men are created equal. You dont take that to a lab. You dont distill it. You dont say, well, im not quite sure. What do you mean by. Give me more examples. No, you know it when you see it. There must be something wrong with your brain. Or you might have, as hamilton put it in the federalist papers, some strong input tulsa passion or interest that gets in the way of that. But any honest person recognizes that even if we look around this room, that tremendous diversity that we see here, we not a one of us in looking around this room would go human, human, not so sure human. No. We all recognize tremendous differences. Beauty. Sorry. Thats the hand you were dealt would be intelligent. Theres tremendous diversity. But what . We dont mistake is that fundamental sameness. We dont mistake our humanity. Thats what the declaration means when its a selfevident truth. It cannot be demonstrated. It cannot proven. You dont assume it. You apprehended as soon as your mind beholds it, you recognize its truth. Right. And those who dont do it, there are things, as it were, including or blocking their vision. So long winded answer to your very simple question, which is why is he so awesome . Why is he so popular . Its because people recognize in douglass something that he put his finger on that i argued that the founders put, their finger on it didnt get quite right in practice. Obviously, but they figured out, you know what . Lets stop dividing society on the basis of whos got stuff and who doesnt. Whos got the power and who doesnt . Why dont we form a society based on what we all possess, what god gave, all of us, what is our common birthright . Life, liberty, the of happiness, these sorts of things. So i think thats why across the spectrum, people, theres theres a lot in douglass not a little, but a lot in douglass. Douglass that resonates with pretty much any audience to that point. Probably every 4th of july. I get emails from, you know, more of my center left friends letting me know about that speech that douglass gave in 1852, i believe it was, in new york, and saying, look, he didnt love america. Look, he chastised, you know, this country and, you know, the couple of points that i try to raise to them is, number one, please read the speech. And yeah, there you go. Did you read the speech . And then secondly, this was given before slavery ended. Douglass would give other 4th of july speeches after that. Talk us a little bit about just the evolution. Douglass lived to be over 75 years old, so he he was not the same person in the latter years that he was. You know, when slavery ended, then he was in the early years before slavery. So talk about that evolution that i think, you know, some people like to cherry pick parts of. Douglass i think almost everybody is guilty as i think left and right, left, right and center. Present company excepted, cherry picks. Douglass i say present company because i do this for a living, not talk to you all, but i do this with students and i have to make it a fair fight. And i just gonna pick the parts of douglass i like, right . He has an essay editorial entitled is it wise just to kill a kidnap . Now ive got that guys attention. Okay, it is one of the rare times when advocates violence on behalf of liberty. Gee, i wonder how this country started. But douglass makes an argument. You know what . According to the 1850 fugitive slave act, somebody comes to my house and says, youve got to be part of the im going to drop some latin on you. Potter comitatus, you grew up watching westerns, you know, a posse is you couldnt say that goes against my religious convictions that youre going to go apprehend an alleged fugitive slave. You had to be deputized and go and capture or else you were jailed or fined. Douglass says somebody is trying to make me kidnap, rap. Another person in that editorial, he said, why isnt just to kill the kidnaper . Yes, yes. Thats one time he said that the overwhelming number of other editorials and speeches, he recognized that actually isnt the most prudent course of action, that the levers of freedom are actually found in the rule of law, that ultimately the very thing that we are being deprived of as black people is the protection of the law. So we cant undermined undermine its authority. Some stranger and i keep coming back to king when king argued controversially for civil disobedience, he said, yes, we are going to disobey a particular law to call attention, not to the injustice of government. We need government. I just wish it was for everybody. Right. So says were going to call the communitys attention to a particular egregious, unjust law. And we will willingly take the punishment. And so in that way, we fortify the rule of law. We support court the government that ultimately, when arc of what is it, the arc of the moral universe bends toward justice. When it finally hits the earth, does it look like an arc right now . It looks like a line drawn forever. But when it finally comes here, by gods grace. Yeah, right when it bends. And finally the earth. We will have the of those laws, the protection of that government. So how do we how do we push without knocking the thing down that we need to protect us . Are any points that you would highlight for us today where douglass had a change of heart or. Oh, yeah, eyes opened. I mean, if i think about myself going back when i was a student at Howard University protesting and shut down the the college. Im not the same person that did that as i am today, but i did that. So i had the paper clippings. Oh, good. But how did douglass evolve . What are some points that we might look at . The most fundamental one was one that i made reference to in my speech was when he came when he comes back from england and he gives his back speech, the right to criticize american institutions, he does this in 1847. And at that point, what country if i have no country, this country does not know me as a man who doesnt know me as a citizen. He says the only that identifies me with america are people who look like me, who are enslaved. I am now no longer outside the laws protection. Im no longer an outlaw because my manumission was purchased. But the vast majority of of my kin are still enslaved. Thats what brought me back to where he could have stayed in the u. K. They were begging him to become a british citizen, and he would send for his family. And he ultimately thought, my calling is with my people and is with my country. So that 1847, when he says the constitution should be shivered into a thousand fragments, you dont invite people like that to your parties. Thats what the abolitionists were a fringe. Its hard for my students to 23 to understand that it wasnt slam dunk to be an abolitionist at that time. And part of it was because they did not have a some of them did not have the respect for the constitution. Right. That most of the country did. But what did douglass do upon returning . He didnt just give speeches. He and another black activist named Martin Delaney, who was pro colonies nation until served in the union army. He and Martin Delaney coedited the north star. And so what douglass did, he was a voracious reader like lincoln, you know, selftaught, practically. Okay. He started doing more for himself and he started reading guys like lysander spooner, wendell phillips, william goodell, and a benefactor of his named garrett smith. And he returned to the constitution. He he never lost sight of the declaration. Declaration when he was down with the declaration the whole time. He loved the declaration. He says those those in this 1852 speech saved principles, eternal principles. But he that that constitution at that higher up thats the rub thats the obstacle in the road for me reading those guys and doing his own reading, he said, wow, and we learn this in part from madisons notes that became available after he died in 1835. He said, this is peculiar. The preamble, the Mission Statement of the constitution doesnt say anything about slavery. Why are we why are we using this document in a way to protect something thats never mentioned . Thats weird. It talks about the blessings of liberty to ourselves, our posterity. Its in english. Liberty . Where is slavery . In this thing . And he said, hmm, in this 1852 speech, if you stay within the four corners at this document, understood this way, it is a glorious liberty. He said, the burden is on you to apply this as an enforcer lever for slavery. So the moment the epiphany for him can between 1847 and 1849, 1850, he starts saying out loud. In other words, in his paper, im starting to rethink things. Im starting to dig a little deeper here. In other words, he was warning. He was preparing us for his greatest speech, which was what to the slave is the 4th of july delivered . Not on the 4th of july. I think some of you might know this, that there was a custom among many black communities to sell, liberate and orate not on july 4th, but july 5th. That was an implicit way in indirect way of serving notice to those outside the black community. Yeah, we liked some things about the fourth, but dont just take this as a day to pat yourselves on the back for what other people did. What are you doing to make your practice align more consistently with the profession of that generation . In that 1852 speech, he says, you guys cry out, we have to do our father right . Like the new testament. We have abraham to our father. Jesus says, you dont look a thing like him. Douglass was saying that to his generation, and we all know we should know. George washington had no blood descendants. The only children were through marthas previous marriage. Washington didnt have any children of his own. We have washington to our father, we know that aint true by blood. Yeah, but we look like him. And we live in the United States. He says, you know what . Washington was courageous for his day. Where is your courage . You want to look Like Washington . What . Let what is left to be done . What was started by the founders . That hasnt been finished yet. And so they would celebrate on july 5th as a way of saying, were kind of late to this game, arent we . Not we. Black people. We believed it from the jump, but the greater white majority of the population. You guys need to get on board here. You want to look Like Washington and finish what he started in that speech. Its remarkable. I said, did you did you read the speech . When they say this, you should do read the speech of douglass, the first third of it is all praise for the fathers, right . As men in words, in terms of their character and their principles and their risk and whats the last line of the declaration we pledge to each other . Our lives are fortunes and sacred honor. Never mention the fact that at least a few of them were slaveholders. Does douglass not know this . He studiously avoided it because he says, dont let that blur your vision. See past their failures to see what they got right. And thats why i emphasize in my speech, they put it on paper. That was either genius or stupidity. They it on paper all. Yeah. Last i check all middle created. In other words, even before government enters the picture. This is who people are. Okay. He studiously ignores the thing Everybody Knows is true. Because the point is what did they get right . Is there anything in our past that can help us fix the things that are still left to be done . Yeah. And so then he takes out hammer and tong for his generation. Thats when he starts lighting into not the founders, but to his current generation. He says, this is what you need. Remember what they did right now you finish the job. Were going to go to some audience questions, but terrorists, do we have somebody first from our online viewing audience . Yes. Yep. Thank you. Someone asked the question online. It said, what would you say was douglass his most important virtue . Oh, wow. Most important virtue virtue. Hmm. I think of a word like virtue. I think very plainly. These are the ways in which a human being is excellent. Whether in mind or in soul or character. So many come to mind. I mean, good grief. This guy, again, born with the laws and society, right. Formal and social against him, had the courage he had. He didnt escape the first time, right . He was caught. Somebody gave him up. The first time. And he was lucky, if you will, not to be sold to a worse place. His place was bad enough. So his courage is one. But i mean, that was a courage that soon got translated into the conviction that you hear in him as an orator. And so for me, his his greatest virtue, wed have to win or match his ferocity of spirit and his courage right . Just through mass, as they say in the greek spiritedness, is courage with his his mental acuity. I mean, his is just great selfconfidence. He has, as i mentioned, he like lincoln, basically selftaught. Right. Theres a great scene. And then 1845 narrative where he describes the mistress of the house as this angelic being. She treats him as little bready bread and starting to teach him how, you know, teach him his letters, teach him how to read, and then the husband comes in and says, dont you know that this will unfit him to be a slave . And then with a little rhetorical excess, he says this angel in my world became a demon on a dime when she was told, stop treating him like your own son, like a little boy who needs to be educated by. His mom treat him like the mere beasts of the earth. She was the worst person. Now in the household for him. Just turned on a dime there. He recognized. Well, the thing dont want me to do, i bet you thats the most important thing for me to do. I may not know all my letters yet. I may not know how they all fit together. But thats the key to freedom. That was the key, he said early on to his liberator. So in terms of, again, human excellence and virtue, that that what i called ferocity of spirit, it was the thing of his character, his soul, but also a mind that was now going to go as far as it could take him right. David blight in his great biography, Frederick Douglass, prophet of freedom, he talks about this book called the colombian orator. Yes. Where its just this whole kind of potpourri of readings, classical and modern. And he just devoured that thing. And my wife, i used to say, we homeschooled my wife homeschooled. I remember read all three of our four children and especially my eldest, luke, as soon as he figured out how letters were put together and how words became sentences, it was like he was off to the races. We would just be checking his work now. There wasnt a whole lot we were doing once he learned how to read and that was douglass and having the confidence now to go on and speak for a living, write for a living. And i cheated those are a few virtues, not just one great question that well look. What were going to do is. Were going to continue this discussion with our audience here, the Heritage Foundation. We want to thank them for hosting us today. We want to thank them also for some lunch. For those of you who here. And were going to continue this discussion, dr. Morrell but lets give him a round of applause. Thank you so very much. That. Are with us. Were going to continue this conversation. But we also want to make sure that, you know, that he also has a book that hes willing to sign today. And we will have some great food again provided by the Heritage Foundation. So thank you guys so very much. Appreciate your being here. This is about your book. Is there lincoln and the american founding. So as we get ready to go to our seat, i saw a horror set of questions. So lets go to horace. Will. Horace cooper. Im chairman of project 21. I think i was ten years old when my grandmother gave me a copy of the narrative of a slave by Frederick Douglass and it has always impact it me influencing me all the way to adulthood. Im not going to preach my question. Its just today, what do you see are the values of Frederick Douglass that could apply to some of the issues that we face . Yeah. What are the values given the time im in this one, ill try to keep to one and its its the one that i focused on, quoted it, but then moved on from. But for me in teaching, not just the narrative for my students, i teach excerpts from the narrative. And then we read a lot of his speeches and editorials because thats when his mind really unfolds. But whats key in that passage, which is also in my bondage of my freedom, is that douglass, if he wants to teach not just black people, but any person, the key to prosper already and success in life he says. Are there obstacles . Let me tell you, where was i born again and how does society treat me . I know there are obstacles. Dont tell me. I dont know that there are obstacles. But he says, if you want to be free, aint going to start out there. You have to find here first. You look out there and you will always have an excuse for why things arent going well for you. So if you want to call it a value, the number one value or the what do we say . Do the take away the lesson from douglass. If you learn nothing from douglass is freedom starts here. You have all the good in the world out there to change for you. But if you dont find it here first changes in the law, changes in customs, changes in social practices. So one early speech or an editorial of his i think its in 1848, he says that the number one thing that blacks in particular need and this is well before slavery is is has been abolished and. Great. After slavery, theres segregation. So thats just half the battle. Right. Well, before the obstacles were removed, he says, the number one thing we need to do is work on our character. He made care, victor essential, he says. Theres gold in the earth, but you got to dig for it. He says this our friends cant do for us. The only thing we can do for ourselves. And we dont have to wait to start. So i think its his emphasis on character and fundamental early that that liberation has to happen here. So long before he tried to escape and long before he was legally man committed. That came several years after that he said i had to discover i was free even while the laws considered me a slave. I had to discover i was born free. And now the question is, what am i going to do to make that . A reality . Awesome. Well, why dont we get some lunch, find some books, and continue the discussion outside. Thank you, guy. My name is kevin. And on behalf of the miller center,