Any of us or fish or mammals or its in some worms which come from a very Different Branch of the animal kingdom. Thats also interesting to those because those warms cause severe tropical diseases and if you kill all, you are able to kill the diseases, a different story. But yeah, a lot of biology that we dont understand. Why is it so good at jumping from host to host . Is it just because it spreads vertically throughout the population like i talked about with mosquitoes, is it also because its really good at jumping horizonly from one host to another. Maybe it gets infected by something. These are all questions theres actually a huge a thriving area of research. Still has a lot of unanswered questions. So weve so weve gone from cow poo to fecal transplants and back again. Thank you all for coming who are out of time. R i hope you all all come. [applause] [inaudible] cspan created by americas Cable Television companies and brought to you as a Public Service by your cable on satellite provider. And now author and historian gerald horne sits down with booktv to discuss his work hes author of several books on race and history including his most recent, paul the artist as revolutionary. Professor gerald horne in your book the counterrevolution of 1776, you write as the 21st century perceives, one point is evident. Heroic creation myth is in need of revisiting. What does what mean . Means that i think that historians by and large have not done a very good job of talking about founding of United States of america striking is that in history departments, from the atlantic to pacific, you have specialst who is critique french revolution, chinese revolution, cuban revolution but those who krit are teak 1776 or far and few between. Despite the fact that after founder of the United States of america you have land from native americans clearically which meant that 1776 is not a step forward for indigenous population but you haved United States a note in that book have taken over the control of the charade trade in africans to cuba by 1840s as i said in the deepest south with slave trade have taken good with national taken control of the slave trad to brazil. So it seems to me that minimally one can say that 1776 was not a greatly way for african or great leap forward for the indigenous population. It was a great leap forward for europeans that is to be sure. But europeans if we know do not comprise the entire tea of humanity. I think what it said in motion is actually were seeing in 2016 that it is to say with 1776 you had the progressive exappropriation of land and then that was out often times to yiewrns fresh off the boat which helps solidify a cross Class Coalition between poor europeans and more fluent yiewrns at the expense of the indigenous population and africans that stalk that land as bonded labor and in 2016 once again you see a kind of Cross Coalition on republican side a monk, european various class background, and for those who say or think make America Great again means white again, they have a point to be made. I think part of the problem is that since we havent had a critique of 1776 to the extent it deserves one it is difficult to understand. If you go to a doctor and you have an illness one of the first thing doctor will do is take a medical history and hopefully had a adequate medical history to allow doctor to make a diagnosis and prognostication regard to your future well being. Well, we havent had a adequate history it seems to me of the founding that make it is very difficult to understand the purpose. And in your book how the alabama, you write the u. S. Had been founded in the 18th centuy on principle of white supremacist. So it goes back to what i said that is to say that in some ways, if you look at 1776 and this is what i tell my students, when i teach undergraduates introduction africanamerican studies that it is fair to say that 1776 and the u. S. Constitution did represent a step forward in terms of religious liberty. To that point, of course, religious war has been racking european in particular. Protestant london versus catholic power, france, and spain. Took a lot over the americas portuguese predominant catholic but what happened in that i argue in order to widen the base of support, for the republican project in north america, socalled democratic project in north america there was a step forward in terms of religious liberty because this allowed the settler, here to widen their basis of port against the crown in london. And so set hers that led by George Washington could not have prevailed but from the First Amendment guaranteeing to latest liberty. With with that, of course, we all know that catholicism burning of the continue then and it prevailed century ago with with rods of second of the ku kx klan and steps forward this materials of the fight against antisemitism even 2016 that particular beef continues to an ugly head. But generally speaking it was a step forward with religious liberty. But the the flip side of that coin that the socalled republican project it mean that religion took a step backward it also meant that monarchy took a step backward but u of ancestry and heritage and lineage was in london it was race. And in fact you can make had the argument and i have made the argument that that project didnt begin to retreat until the 20th century with the rise of the class project. The rise of thriving trade union and social country movements et cetera that would begin assistance under the lash of racism and white stream city which forced agonized retreat from access in 1949 may 17 with the brown versus education decision and then 1964 with the act with Voting Rights act. But as that International Assistance and pressure began to wither in the latter part of the 20 9 century in the first decade or so of the 21st century you see a reassertion of the uglier aspect that is represent ared for example with this incredible state of Police Shootings in san diego, tulsa, shaar is lot, chicago, milwaukee. The list of sites to mention, and part of the dilemma were black community in particular is that as a result of brown versus board of educations and that retreat from the more egregious access of White Supremacy a tradeoff was made to say more internationalist leader of the black community who were willing to make the source of Global Alliance paul of the first place were marginalized isolated. Demonized et cetera, now that reare peteedly wherever theres a microphone in my face, and in 2016 despite the fact that you have these major crises, ukraine, north korea, syria. Mentioned a few, there are few black intellectual and leaders that have anything credible or meaningful to say despite the fact that those crisis could lead to something worse. Up to and including planetary extinction perhaps. So this is where we stand in 2016. Dr. Horne 2. 5 Million People resided in u. S. In 1776. What was the role of africanamericans of slaves during the revolution . If any well, we were told in our classrooms by some would have it that he was the first fern to lay down his life for liberty quote unquote. Although, of course, defined as black another country might have identified as africanamerican girch his ancestry. But what were not told, of course, generally speaking is about the africans who fought against founder and interestingly i was watching second second is version of roots called first version camed out based on the book in the 1970s that took the nation by storm. So much in the second version which just came out this year, i believe. And they doll a credible effort in terms of trying to ill state that last point that i just made that is to say that sense it was a faster track abolition of savely is june 1972 that black population had reason to believe that their interest would be better served the settlers were defeated thats a very difficult point for people in the United States to grapple with. I might also say that there is another tv mini series that you can find easily i wont mention sources. Book of negro a b. E. T. Black entertainment television. Canadian in South African production. To think theyre the best job yet in terms of film and cinema in terms of presenting an accurate portrayal of the black role 1776 war. In any case, enslave africans were bonded laborers. As a i told the story, if youre trying to understand 1776, youre trying to understand 16 thats the glorious revolution in england where the wings of the monarch are clipped by the rising merchant class to that point, were all African Company under sum of monarch was major force in terms of the african slave trade. But with with clipping of the wing of the monothere was a deregulation and to numerous demention able to enter this commerce failing to african, and handcuffing with a praise. Striking them across atlantic to work in the tobacco field and the chesapeake in particular. And of course in the caribbean u up to the middle of 18th century thought more valuable to north american mainland. Of course the story should be told in terms1776 in conjunction can caribbean because africans jots numbered yuens sometimes at a rate ofafrs 101 and krib i caribbean should make forgets grad to rise of slave jeopardizing a lie. Bu slave owners and on the mainland where ratio is a much more favorable to slavery but thatre save because you have revoke actually before that in 1712 you have a revoke in manhattan, 1739 in south carolina, basically spearheaded by engoland not only many of them could speak portuguese but Roman Catholic trying to get to spanish florida, florida at that time controlled by spain. And there was a direct collaboration between spain and the enslaved africans in south carolina. To overthrow the settler class in south carolina. And so what happens finally and 1776 to 1763 is seven years war where london speaks to eliminate the spanish threat to their settlement in florida and tose french threat in quebec to suggest in manhattan in 1712. That is a very successful fort the seven years war, of course we all know today as we speak canada quebec in particular has a predominantly french speaking but any event london prevails. They want to tax settler because the war was to their benefit and this is the traditional narrative kicks in because i think accuracy there. The is the hers did not want to pay these taxes which is a various scene in washington, d. C. To the very day. And that leads to the revolt against british rule and collaboration with french in particular against london which then brings us back to the constitution and the religiousba liberty the First Amendment, et cetera. What was role of who was lord dunmother. I was at a conference the Graduate Center in new york about a year ago. Re and leading historian [laughter]ro started off making what he thought was a cynical comment about the parallel between lord dunmore virginia in 1775 andd Abraham Lincoln hing thought it was cynical i thought he was about about to Say Something i agree with. But to say lord dunmore was upset shall we say with the fact that settlers led by George Washington and Thomas Jefferson wanted to overthrow a british rule. [laughter] in virginia and in north america generally. So he tried to cut a deal with the africans. As a matter of fact, this was represented in the second version of roots that i was just making reference to. So the filmmakers credit. And in return liberty for the enslaved, they they they would h london forces of course this diw not win du nurksmore to put it mildly he became a notorious unpopular. But this leading his when he was throwing what hing thought was a par leal between lord dummore and Abraham Lincoln he was making a point that, of course, that emancipation proclamation in 1863 in some measure as i say negro commands with a crown was a measure in terms of trying to free enslaved population that the United States does not have jurisdiction over to say in the confederate United States of america that was a turning point in terms of the war to allow for more black soldiers represented in film lauri starring Denzel Washington, and then allows the u. S. Or the union forces to blue to prevail over gray Confederate States of america. It didnt work in 1775 with lord dummore for various reasons including the fact that theres criticism of lord that he didnt go far enough that he should have been trying to offer a freedom to the enslave loyalist that is to say those that did not defect from union jack, from london. But in any case lord duore is an important figure in United States of america. Gerald horne if you were to write a general history book for school kids today, what would be the first line in that book . Im not sure what the first line would be but im giving l talk in a few days that the association of the study of aron American Life and history founded by leading black historian over a century is ago, and this that talk im taking off from an important seminar that was held in washington tk in anyway of 2016 andup when first initiated to opening of the africanamerican miewmre museum and for reasons. In that conference in washington one leading historian. L number asked we need a new framework for the United States of america. One historian said is from slave is rei from slavery a popular frame work with and ely from plantation to ghetto. Another historian said what we need is a new framework for u. S. History. In richmond i will say yes from settler colonialism to imperialism that will allow us to incorporate more effectively the present day diversity of the black American Population. And houston, for example, where i teach. The black American Population has been a rich tremendously byc waves of migrants and immigrants from nigeria in houston basketball score goes on to perform for Houston Rockets and toronto raptors. O in new york city for example, or at least century a tidal wave o. Migrant from jamaica, barr barbs and miami a significant number of percentage has roots in haiti. In particular and for various reasons the traditional narrative are not able to account for that kind of diversity and thats why i think we need this new interpretiveve framework to account for qualitity on the ground. You mentioned earlier paul from your new book, paul robeson you write you cannot fully appropriate how jim crow system came to an end without understanding of life. He pioneered the struggle against jim crow throughout the 30s and 40s that is true. [laughter] despite fact that i wrote it. That is to say that paul black american born in new jersey in 1898 passings away in philadelphia in 1976 leading scholar as an undergraduate of rutger and new bruns we can and stars on gridiron and baseball catcher as far as athletics leaves there and goes to Columbia University and graduates that was on fast track to becoming a lawyer. But diverted although i should say that he also is an early reformer and professional. But hiss career as a lawyer is diverted and he stumbles into performing and becomes a leading actor. A kind of precursor of Denzel Washington and will smith if you like not only on screen but stage and physical low is signature role. A good deal his stardom is created in london where he lives from article 1920s until the late 1930s to the United States of america. Theres a whole die depression we could engage in now with regards to a black. How many black americans over the decade and centuries have been treated much better abroad than in the place of their birth which leetdz to this to this to lives over but a turning point when he comes to visitfast fascist germany and facetoface with rising tide of fascism. He also goes on to moscow where he encountered another black lawyer William Patterson who i write a biography about about that came thes few years ago who graduated from school of law in San Francisco and tented undergraduate school of california berkeley where i attended law school, and William Patterson had become an early member of the u. S. Communist party. Had gone to moscow toll be trained as a professional revolutionary and actually spoke some russian. He convinces robeson that he should devote more of his time and energy to cause of the e people during context of the scots case the subject of thepe book i wrote paul versus alabama, and ill mention that, of course, shortly details of that case. But in any case paul isi convinced that it he should spend more time in the United States of america facilitating that is onseventy world war ii in european in 1939. He has reason to believe he and his family might be trapped in london you know that london was bombed repeatedly by therepe fascist world war ii and people sleeping in subways, et cetera. So returns to the United States helps to convince black americans that they should throw in welcome with the United States and antifascist cause, and thats not necessarily a slam dunk proposition. Is not n because writing a book that will be published in nyu press called facing rising sun. Africanamerican japan, and rise of the solidarity that talks about tokyo sentiment in black america, in fact, in this book i talk about how in november 1942 in east san luis, illinois, right across the