To start off with a callin question and how many times were you arrested during the civil rights hay day . Guest i didnt keep track. But i talked about the first one and the last one in the book. The first one is the day i met my wife. We met in jail. The last time was in columbia, South Carolina in 1961. I remember that one because that arrest led to a landmark breach of peace case called edwards against South Carolina. It began a Law School Case that most universities use the case book method use that case to teach from. I happen to be one of those arrested that day. I remember those two. In between a lot of times we got arrested and were never really charged. Just taken to the police station, taken off the streets and put back on with once the crowd disbursed. Host why were you and Emily Clyburn arrested and what year was it . Guest march of 1966 and it was six weeks after the students in greenboro, North Carolina were arrested and several weeks before we first met greensboro at Shaw University in raleigh to form a group that was being talked about. I was locked up around 10 a. M. And emily was among the students they didnt have room for in the jails so they herded them back to the the campus of South Carolina state and chaplain university. They came around 6 30 to bring us food. She talked in the door and walked toward me with this hamburger in her hands and i reached for it, she pulled it become, broke it in half, gave me half and she ate the other half. I was so grateful for that half hamburger and married her 18 months later. At our 10th anniversary she fessed up and told me it wasnt a chance meeting. She said she and her roommate, they were standing there in the dorm room watching me walk across the campus, and she told her roommate we didnt make a good couple and she was going to be my wife. She set at with her plan that happened on june 24th, 1961. So this past june we celebrated our 53 anniversary. Host James Clyburn represents the sixth district of South Carolina since 1993. It has a little columbia, charleston and and lot of other territoryies. 202585380 forestern central. 5853891 if you live out west. You can tweet us and facebook. Com booktv. We will try to get to those comments as well. Congressman, clyburn, age 12, what made you become an activist and what made it happen . Guest growing up my dad and mom were very active and around 195152 is when things starting percolating in South Carolina. My father was a minister and the man who was organized in all of the people was a minister delane. My dad at breakfast every morning we would be praying for the people and we started forming Youth Councils of the naacp throughout the south and i went to the meetings at the church back in just about two months before my 13 birthday. In some way, i guess i went to the rest room but when the meeting was over with i was the president of the sumpter youth council. And that just grew to the sitins in 1960 and the forming of snick in april at Shaw University that year and then i met Martin Luther king, jr. In october down at moore House College and met john lewis at the same time. It came from my parents and associates in college and went through to today and here we are, June John Lewis and i having spent 22 years in the congress together. Host you are the democratic leader in the house of representative, right . Guest yes. Host what do you were growing up in the jim crowe era . Guest in 1955 my High School Band was invited to march in the christmas parade. It was the first time there were black units. It was customary in those days for santa clause to be the last unit riding on a fire truck. After santa clause the horses from a local equestrian stable would march. They were the last things because of the droppings they left along the way and their aroma that flowed from those droppings. When he got down there to march in the parade it turned out we were placed in the parade behind the horses. It was very, very difficult and very memorable to try to play that clarinet while side stepping droppings and trying to breathe in and out the way you have to with the aroma of the stale oats. Well, that to me, was probably the most lasting memory from that year because because of that i left that high school. And went to madison academic where my mother had gone to school and that is where i graduated from and i believe it was the experience at that united methodisschool in camden, South Carolina where i first interacting with white teach teachers and people that containi changed me dramatically. It was the most transformational thing until i let Martin Luther king, jr. In october of 1960 and setting up with him until 4 30 in the morning was transformational. Those two experiences shaped me more than anything else. Host Peniel Joseph was just talking about his recent book, stokely a life. Here is the cover. What is improgression of the first generation of the Civil Rights Movement . Guest very important. Congressman clyburn and senator lewis were activist and shaped by jim crowe seg segregation and they shift from political organizer to electoral politics and they did it successfully and maintained an understanding with grassroots. Congressman clyburn and congressman lewis represent accountability. Once they achieved political power they remembered their backgrounds as Civil Rights Activist. It is an extrordinary situations. Host Peniel Joseph, what was Stokely Carmichaels reputation among those on the ground . Guest before becoming a black power activist he is well known. Before he is an icon and in the front page of the new york time s he was someone people knew has a snick activist. John lewis and him were friends. And he remembered he instantly liked Stokely Carmichael. Among young people and activist he had a good reputation. He was stubborn and cracked wise jokes. King loved him like a little brother. Stokely wasnt in awe of anyone. Host congressman clyburn would you agree with that . Guest yes. I was in South Carolina, i remember, we went to raleigh, North Carolina easter weekend in 1960. Part of that where talk about in my book because you take rosa par parks. Parks was a phenomenal part of the case and when you read the court case that desegregated transit there was a footnote in the rosa parks case that said we didnt have to determine the rule on this issue. We have already made that determination in the case of Sarah Flemming versus the South Carolina electric and gas company. There was a lot going on in South Carolina but we were not a media center and therefore you will not read and hear a lot about it. You write a lot about john lewis. He talked about having been arrested this morning. The first time he was every physically attacked was in rock hill, South Carolina. And the man that went up there to rescue them was James T Mccain from sumpter South Carolina when was my pointing League Baseball coach and the one guy my dad let me go to the meetings with him. My dad trusted him more than anyone else in the movement. John lewis will tell you that mccain was one of the most impressive people he ever met. I got to know him not just as a movement guy but my baseball coach when i was 14. You will find these in my book but not most other books because most people never saw South Carolina and what was going on. Martin luther king, jr. Referred to mcclaw as the mother of the movement. She went to highline the folks school to teach and taught rosa parks. She was from charleston, South Carolina. Host James Clyburn, Peniel Joseph, lets take calls. Elonzo in North Carolina. Go ahead with your question or comment, sir. Caller yes, either one can answer, but i would like to know what is their opinion about the current gridlock as it relates to Stokely Carmichael and brown and those people who probably foresee what i termed as the ignorance our country is faced with now because the demographics are changing here in the United States. A lot of what seems to be what stokely and brown spoke against was those that were at the top and how for their own reasons they oppressed people and now we find that even the white power structure which is becoming increasingly decreased why find there is an awareness that is causing the kinds of gridlock we find in our government. And their philosophy which isnt being challenged is based on a lot of thinking of dread scott and the Supreme Court decision. Host you got a lot on the table. Let start with Peniel Joseph and then congressman clyburn. Guest i think where we are at with the Race Relations in the country is a crucial point. I think 50 years ago with stokely and brown they talked about institutional racism and trying to transform the movement. This idea of black equality has lost some steam is what the fergus ferguson, missouri and other cases are showing. When we think about social economic indicators, 43 million in the United States and only 10 make 90,000 or more. So 90 of africanamericans are not doing well. Mass incarceration and underemployment. Where we are at for a Certain Group of africanamericans is extraordinary and we cannot deny the progress this group made but they are only a small subsection of the larger group. What that group needs to do along with poor folks is talk about black quality and Racial Justice. We cannot say we have obama and the Civil Rights Movement and it is over. Guest i agree with that. Lets move it into the political arena. We just experienced depictions in ferguson, missouri. But let me tell you something. I have looked at this. I had my staff do research for me. We found out that if you look at the 2012 elections in ferguson, missouri, 56 of the africanamericans in that Community Voted in the president ial election in 2012. In april of this year, only 6 of them bothered to vote. In the local elections for mayor, the why who they say incen incenseive tv insensitive was up for election unopposed and only 6 bothered to vote. Something has to be done to get people to understand their job isnt over when you elect an africanamerican to the president or the congress. I dont have a vote on the school board or the city council or the county commissioner. And i am not the one affecting your childrens lives in that school house. You have to take those local and state elections just as seriously as you take the president ial elections. President obama may have delivered the Affordable Care act however the implementation of parts of that act must be done at the state level. So it must be the state governors and legislatures who determine whether or not medicare gets expapped and if Senior Citizens get taken care of. This is at the state and local levels. We have to do a better job of getting people to understand these local elections are just as important to your children and your grandchildren has who sits in the whitehouse. That to me is where we have gun to fall short. Back in the activism days we were marching to the polls as if there were more tomorrow. Today we keep waiting on tomorrow. Host george is calling in from murphysboro, tennessee. You are on the line. Caller i want to ask a question to Professor Joseph and make a comment i want them both to address. When i was a at a seminary ge heard carmichael and he made a statement saying if america mess the africa we will burn this area down. What did Stokely Carmichael think of the naacp and the urb league. Congressman clyburn, congressmen like to study but i would like to see you go out and support your family and live on 7. 25 an hour and tell us about it. Host congressman you want to start . Guest i wasnt always a congressman. I know what it is like to sleep three in a bed. I remember when we got our first indoor toilet and running water. I have had those experiences. I have worked for a 1. 25 an hour. I used to relocate out houses in order to make enough money to pay my college education. I didnt come along when we had pel grants and students loans. So none of that i experienced. My wife used to walk two and a half miles to school and back home every afternoon because they were not allowed school buses in her school districts. No body can tell me how tough it is to make these livings. But i am not going to be sorry for having getting elected to congress. I went door to door and i am living my dreams and spending every day to make sure that pell grants are there for your children and student aid is there for them. Whatever the government maybe i am working june june lewis and the other Congressional Black Caucus members to make it work. And i i want you to know i wasnt always a member of congress. Guest in terms of stokely, he would have wanted people to join the urban league and naacp because he believed in organizing. If more people in ferguson were organized they had have more political power. So he felt even if you didnt follow his way wherever you were you mead needed to organize. Groups like the naacp are important. And they are advocates for Economic Justice and more importantly they are advocates for black quality. I think the biggest thing we dont talk about in america in 2014 is the idea of black quality. That is more than racial judgment. It is saying if black people receive equalty there is a trickle up affect for everyone. Gays and lesbians, poor, physically challenged but you have to talk about black quality because the country is founded on racial slavery. It is uncomfortable and i dont think it is the president who has to talk about it. It is all of us who are active citizens. It matters for all of us even if we are not black because it will have a healthy impact on our democra democracy. Host Peniel Joseph, how do you think your life has been different from congressman clyburn . Guest very different. I went to a high school that was integrated. My neighborhood was predominantly black but if you achieved and had educational students you could leave that neighborhood. So there was definitely, i would say, more opportunities and more access. At the same time, i think one of the interesting things about the jim crowe period that congressman lewis and clyburn lived through, we are facing a new jim crowe with massive incarceration and also segeration in the residential areas. Blacks and whites are likely to live, die and go to church together. The recoursources are not there though in the black community as much. My life was shaped by a different jim crowe. My encounters with the police were not the same. I was stopped but never taken in because i had conversations to tell them i am a student and didnt do anything. But i think my life was contoured by a different jim crowe that is different than what the congressman had. Host Peniel Joseph was our guest on indepth for three yours. You can watch three hours of him talking about all of the books including stokely a life. James clyburns book was covered and his wife in aikin, South Carolina and you can watch that online as well. Next call is from steve in washington, d. C. Hi, steve. Caller Stokely Carmichael was an atheist and how did that play out in the otherwise greatly christian Civil Rights Movement . Guest that is a great question. His people were methodist but his own believes were atheist agnostic. He had read the bible and sang church songs and hymns so he used that christian ethic that was a part of the heroic multiple for the organizing. He knows to multiple churches in washington, d. C. And other churches toward the end so has a great relationship with the black church and understands that is the root and seed bed for black political activism in the United States. He realized if you are going to say you want equal rights and Racial Justice and whether people believe it because of a philosophical reasons or god has led us to this movement he was fine. During freedom summer he is organizing in mississippi and he is with young white organizers who volunteered to come into the deep south. And he said i know some are marxist and some are others but he said if they thing this is a result of god then thank you god. Host do you view this as a Christian Movement . Guest it was a religious movement not christian. There were as many jews involved in the rights as christians. There were other religions. I studied all of the great religions. The first a i got in college was in comparative religion. My father was a minister. I grew up in the fundamentalist church. We believed in dunking and