Transcripts For CSPAN2 Panel Discussion On World War II 2014

CSPAN2 Panel Discussion On World War II May 3, 2014

It should be a fascinating event first of all i would like to thank the city of charlottesville for providing this wonderful venue. Every year they do so for the virginia festival of the book and its really outstanding for both the authors and the audience. I will also thank charlottesvilles on tv 10 for broadcasting todays session. Just a reminder, this session is being recorded so when it comes time for the q a session raise your hand. You will be recognized but a microphone will be passed to you so that you can pose your question. Its important that you speak into the microphone so the question can be recorded. Please, please turn off any cell phones that you might have with you. The festival is free of charge and not free of cost though. Please remember that the virginia festival of the book is sponsored by the Virginia Foundation for the humanities. There are ways to support this organization by direct support or otherwise. At the information desk at the omni are envelopes in which you can place a contribution should you desire. You have been handed yellow sheets. These are very important because they are evaluations for the program and this helps in next years session. So please take the time to address the answers to that. There will be books sold, both of the authors books are here and Michael Green of the reback and company leslie provides part of that sale to the virginia festival of the book. This afternoon we have two wonderful authors and im going to introduce them in the order in which they will speak. Both of them have a bit of an audio or visual presentation. I guess they are both visual presentations. They will be doing the speaking but first up will be cheryl jogensenearp on my left, immediately on my left. She is the author of discourse and defiance under nazi occupation. Its a fascinating subject to stock the coast of england. Shes a professor of Communication Studies at the department of Lynchburg College and she was named virginia professor of the year by the Carnegie Foundation in 2001. Craig shirley on the far left of myself is the author of the New York Times bestseller december 1941. He is an acclaimed historian. He has authored two reagan books, reagans revolution and rendezvous with destiny and he is the reagan scholar at Eureka College and a widely sought after commentator and speaker. Without further ado i would like to introduce cheryl and her presentation with her book. On the British Channel island of guernsey everyone seems to be in a dreadful hurry. If you wander today through the narrow winding streets of st. Peter you may hear rapid footsteps behind you as young and not so young islanders walk briskly past. I once felt the light sharper wrap up a womans cane on my leg 85 if she was a day, to urge me out of the way if i lollygag through the narrow winding streets that is an extension of their high street and the curves gently down toward the harbor. It almost seems to me as if these busy people will run out of room and continue walking purposefully write off the island and into the english channel. But if you leave Saint Peter Port or one of the other little towns that dot the edge of the island you might walk through a dark fragrant forest for a long one of the many high cliff paths where the vertigo inspiring plunges to the rocks in foam below. A walk down the roads of guernsey in the middle of the island has a storybook feel with the hedgerows, stone walls and shady lanes of the british countryside. In a field close by there likely will be guernsey cows comfortable he grazing comet each one attached by a long rope to her individual stake just like a dog in a suburban backyard. Yet walk down another lane back toward the sea and there it stands, cold and stark against the sky, a german watchtower. Theres there something really jarring about the juxtaposition of nazi germany with guernseys ancient towns in narrow streets yet the Channel Islands guernsey and jersey alternately with the only pieces of british land captured in acute hide for five long years by the germans. I think we have a little catching up to do here. I will just carry on and we will catch up with it. I notice whenever im there that islanders have quite an emphasis on sound, the sound of martial music in their street, the ring of jack boots that echoed off the buildings of their high street and in that there is some sense of violation but also a fascination of this simple incongruity of the whole thing. Now what was that oddness that always fascinated me ever since i started visiting guernsey in the 1970s. I was introduced to the island courtesy of my older sister who had the good sense to meet and marry a guernsey man. So i spent many years going back and forth to visit them. We were just going because it was such a beautiful place to visit. I was always struck when i went there gossip and rumor became new means of sending information around the island. They also served as very effective means of control. Second, they use, narratives, stories, jokes, puns ,com,com ma to readings of german propaganda as ways to make sense of their experience and to bolster feelings of common british patriotism. And third, they came up with symbolic resistance through coded messages that they would send in red cross messages back to england. The reverend ford was excellent at coding messages into his sermons and through the visual displays of patriotic colors. They also did quite a bit of illegal information gathering. When wireless sets were confiscatconfiscat ed some islanders hit bears were they built very small crystal sets that could be easily tucked away in different places. I had great fun telling some of the tales of how they hit the sets from the germans. Groups such as guns, the Guernsey Underground News Service consisted of guernsey men and women who listen to secret wireless sets, typed out the nes on then tomato packing paper and sent the news around the island. Some of these very brave people were arrested and sent to prison on the continent and some of them died there. Guernsey was also very active in their own version of the campaign that took place all over europe where ches for victory were chalked in solid piece of ground. I interviewed in 2003 and 2004 my buddy. He passed away in 2006 and this is alpha as a young man. Alpha alpha and one of his mates made thee for victory brooches out of english coins where king georges head seems to rise transiently out of the thee and guernsey people would wear these brooches inside the lapels of their coats so that they could flash them to other guernsey people in the streets right under the germans noses. Now with that overview i want to tell two quick stories of the former persistence used in guernsey and one that i think is very often overlooked. Its the ancient concept of hargeisa. In its english translation that comes out as free speech or fearless speech. In part hes a speaker values over safety and views oppositional speech is a duty to the larger community. They exercise of party should demand the courage to speak in spite of some danger. The germans knew the danger to them if oppositional speech and verbal confrontations went unpunished so our arrests for speech with a called unguarded speech started very early in the occupation and extended very late. Mrs. Wanted for green proved to be a good example and im telling you these stories. I wont try to do the guernsey accent although my brotherinlaw has a pet phrase that he likes. He often will say oh yes will pigs fly which gives you some idea of what it sounds like create winnie green worked as a waitress in the royal hotel and the royal hotel served as the first german headquarters on guernsey so when he was surrounded by germans and their support staff, a situation filled with a lot of possible danger for somebody as patriotic and outspoken as mrs. Green. This was chef at the hotel was a great admirer of hitler. To the same extent winnie green was an ardent admirer of winston churchill. A teasing relationship developed between the two with the chef greeting mrs. Green every day with good morning mrs. Green, heil hitler and winnie retortinf hyle churchill. The staff lunches became this lively titfortat backandforth with the chef crowing over any positive german war news. Have you heard the news mrs. Green . Germany has taken yugoslavia. One day it was we have got the battleship to which when winnie came back several days later with pretty good news, we got the bismarck. Now the danger for a subjugated people in such joking exchanges i think its pretty apparent. In this case the chef and winnie green are in areas commenting on patriotism and war and matters of life and death and pretty soon the levity started to wear away. The comments became more bitter and full of meaning and finally one day the chef said to winnie, would you like some rice pudding mrs. Green . Yes, please she replied. Only if you say heil hitler the chef david and after a few seconds when he burst forthwith to hell with hitler for rice pudding and one made of skim milk at that. For that exchange and i think this is really important, one that when the green defiantly verett verify the trial she received six months in that prison in france. The germans saw such incidents not as pinpricks as they are often described but serious disruption to the seamless functioning of masterful domination. As long as insults are presented off stage or they are disguised they can be ignored but overt insubordination is being described as a dare, one that calls into question the whole relationship between dominator and dominated. Sometimes a apparent compliance is shattered by a insubordination. She very bravely kept 10 pots filled with new sheets of guns under the counter that she could get out of the islanders. She specialized in with double meaning. She used a small stage of her book shop as a place to entertain fellow islanders with attacks on german dignity. In november 1940 at german officer came in to find an english storybook that he could send to his daughter back in germany was learning english. Did he have a book that she could recommend instantly . Heap the political parity aid often blunder land and hands it over to him. Oh yes the officer said looking it over i have heard its a classic but i did not read english well myself very at now such publicly performed humor is a type as soleh linsky would say verbal jujitsu where the opponents use it as an effective weapon against him. That kind of story would have been told and retold across the island multiplying its effect from person to person. Average people saw in her response the flexing of the collective muscle and reverend oort described her in his diary by saying she has the pluck of a regiment. I think its interesting that he uses martial language right they are. That is more imagery and it really was a little microwar that the guernsey islanders conducted to preserve their way of life. The genius of rhetorical resistance lies in its ability james scott said to nibble away at the power of the dominant. Such actions are subtle. Theyre unlikely to overthrow the basic power structure. But still its been said that every day resistance is tenacious. Had the worst happened and the war had been lost resistance forms would have been in place for an ongoing life of subversion. Of course the liberation did come to the Channel Islands but the islanders creative and resistant use of information and the community that they formed through that defiance i think provides a very good example of the effectiveness of rhetorical resistance. [applause] he cheryl thank you. Craig shirley you are up. Thank you arden. Thank you arden thank you cheryl pretty. I love that presentation. It was fascinating. I love writing books for a lot of reasons. One of them is i dont get a chance to meet people and interview people and for this book i interviewed for instance john dingell former congressman dingell or soontobe former congressman dingell who was a 15yearold page on the floor of the house of representatives on december 8, 1941. His father was a member of congress and would tell him about witnessing real history in the making. The day of infamy speech. I also interviewed a fellow by the name of j. Dolly, 95 years old at west point class of 1939, was stationed at the army base in oahu and on december 7, 1941 was in his bunk ,com,com ma heard explosions, ran outside in his skivvies ,com,com ma was told by his co to start shooting anything he saw in the sky and he started doing that right there in the field in his underwear. You meet made all sorts of wonderful people. December 41 last year i went on the daily show with jon stewart and i wasnt all that familiar with the daily show. [laughter] there is a generational divide. We have four children and our kids know all about it. I wasnt all that familiar with it and i think there is a divide somewhere. We went up to new york to do the preinterview and then do the show that night and i was in the hotel room with producer who calls. She has failed sorts of questions and then she says i dont know why bother to because john is going to ask you the questions you want to ask anyway. We make up the arrangements and where we are supposed to be in all the other stuff and finally as we are wrapping up the conversation i said jennifer, i dont not its how you this but i think my kids are more excited about me going on with jon stewart on the daily show than i am. There was a long pause and she said mr. Shirley we have a lot of men your age. [laughter] thats one of the funnier sites. I have now written four books on Ronald Reagan. Two have been published and one is with the publisher being edited now and im finishing up the fourth. I wanted to take a little bit of reagan and reaganism it in his presidency for many years. I always was interested in this period of time from the civilian standpoint. Gordon craig wrote the definitive book on pearl harbor. Nothing will ever surpass it. That was the greatest look written on december 7, 1941. There were various folks written on how a change from december 7 and december 31 and the rest of the war. As i tell people i grew up in an andy hardy movie in upstate new york. I would listen to my grandparents, about it and you would hear my grandfathers say id thought that before the war but didnt sell it until after the war and they would talk about margarine and mixing in the guy and how awful it tasted and think coffee and all those things. The other thing is my family was like most, everybody here was very much immersed in what was called the war effort. If you were not in uniform everybody still served in one way, shape or form. At least most americans did. My grandfather at the time was 43, 44 years old, tried to enlist three times and was turned down three times and was told three times by the draft board we are not that desperate. You are blind as a back and have dependents. We will call you if we need you so he became a Civil Defense broadcaster. Both my grandmothers were rosy the rivers, one tested machine guns and the other was a bomb in specter. My father was a boy scout and government use the boy scouts to distribute promotional posters at churches and Grocery Stores and bars, there were bars, posters, the government was producing, said if youre going to drink, shut up. Loose lips shin sink ships. My mother had Victory Gardens tended scrap drives so everybody in my family including my fathers oldest brother, you may have seen his picture up here, teammate made the ultimate sacrifice, he signed up, tried to sign up before he was allowed to end said no and as soon as you world enough that a certain age you had your parents permission to go in early which he did. His nickname was barney. Surely enlisted in the navy and was a radio operator. Was shot down and killed on his 21st birthday in 1945. I was always grew up with all these stories about the home life. America of world war 2, is tremendously different from the to wasnt even called world war ii, after december 11th, 1941. World war i wasnt called world war i, it was the war to end all wars which gave rise to new threatening powers which then led to world war ii. Come out of world war ii the president of the United States from Franklin Roosevelt to barack obama and everyone in between is known as the most powerful man in the world, the leader of the free world. That wasnt a fixation of the United States president , there were many powerful men and in russia, czars, england, the navy the ruble waves, that we were not the superpower, we are very isolationist from world war i. World war ii changes everything. You cannot put your finger on any part of american culture, society, silence, politics, everything changes. We reject the lead of nations. We pass into the 1930s which prohibited american troops leaving u. S. Oil and that was the world in which we operated. We give rise to the America First movement after the nazi invasion of poland in september 1949 which if we didnt respond to. December 7th and eighth is the one time in the history of the United States, we can ourselves we are united as a citizenry. We have never been united. We have always been divided. In the American Revolution there was a lot of tory sympathizers in the United States. Benjamin franklins son was imprisoned as a tory sympathizer during the revolutionary war. We were not united during the war of 1812. The civil war was about the divisions in this country. Spanishamerican war again. Even our entry into World War Ii Congress debated for many days and even then after wilsons request for a declaration of war said 15 members of the house and a handful of United States senators voted against our entry into world war i. Obviously afghanistan and iraq, vietnam, all these wars we have been in since world war ii, we have not been necessarily united as a country. Obviously united in support of the military but not united in support of the politicians or the policy. The one time in the history of the United States we are complete unanimity is december 7th, 1941. Nobody in america was against going to war with the empire of japan, nobody except as you know congresswoman genet rank and from montana and i always thought a book needs to be done about her because the first woman elected to congress, she was in congress in 1917, was one of the 50 who voted against en

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