Editor at Foreign AffairsForeign Affairs magazine. Hes written for many other notable publications, including the New York Times, the Washington Post, politico and the atlantic amongst others. And he will be joining conversation by uzodinma iweala, who is ceo here at the Africa Center and also an acclaimed writer in his own right, actually, he is some of his works include the novel speak no evil and beasts of no nation, which is actually since been adapted into a movie starring idris elba that you can on netflix now. Well, not now. You should watch this now and for the after. But please help me welcome them to the stage. It was in stuart. Morgan. All right. First of all, thank you much today. Its really good. See everybody here tonight. And i am so excited to be able to share the stage with you. Stuart, weve got a lot to talk about. As they said, this is a phenomenal book and all of you, just so you know, im going to do this now, then ill do it again. At the end of the talk, we copies for sale at the front. Make sure you buy this book im support stuart the support writers get your autograph because be signing as well. It is a phenomenal book and its a book that really does two things i think one it can textual lies is as cindy was saying the history of the congo and of the man by himself. And at the same time also brings that particular period into the larger essence of what was happening across globe at the time. And i dont think we have enough stories that really contextualize African Affairs in that way. And thank you to you for doing that. Before we get into that, though, i to just welcome all of you here to the Africa Center, events like this. It really is wonderful to have your support supporting writers are writing about the continent of africa who are telling different stories about the continent of, africa. And were really getting into who we are historically and who we are and where were going. So with that said and well talk about socials and all that stuff where you can follow us later. But let me ask stewart the first question, which is can you give us just some context for the congo at time, the time of independence, preindependence independence, and of course, the short run of the members. Sure. Thank you so much for having me. And for everyone for coming. So congo became independent from belgium in june 1960 and it was a rush to independence that belgians agreed to only belatedly and did very little next to no preparation for. So lumumba was patrice lumumba, Prime Minister of congo. He had been a postal clerk in the colonial. He was arrested for embezzlement and after prison, remade as a beer promoter and then got involved in anti politics. And so he won the election to be in a parliamentary election before independence upon independence was Prime Minister and then everything sort of goes to hell in. A handbasket in congo very, very quickly. The Army Mutinies there was a all white officer corps, which was a holdover from colonialism, all white, all belgian and black rank and file obviously was not too excited about that. So they rebelled against their officers, the belgian military, without congolese permission ostensibly to protect its citizens. But it looked to everyone like a recall this nation and, a province, mineral rich province of katanga. So within just days of independence, the country was falling apart. And thats when lumumba went to the United Nations for help. So there were a lot of players in this in this narrative. There are a lot of players at this moment United Nations, United States, belgium, other, you know, old powers. But before we get deeper into the story, lets talk a little bit about why this particular story and what you first and foremost to this student. I to congo in 2014 it was i was writing Magazine Article about something more present day focused unrelated and i was taken with the country upon visiting it and then i started reading up its history. And the more i read, the more i realized there was this great untold story or at least had been untold to me. I barely knew anything about it. I hadnt been about the congo crisis as it was called, but it was front page news, the New York Times every day in summer of 1960, basically it was the big cold crisis of the era. And so why had i not learned anything about it . Why had i basically heard of this . And then the more i read, the more i realized there was also great characters at the heart of the story. Lumumba himself of football above all else, but also mobutu, who would go on to rule the country for more 30 years. Dog commercial the secretarygeneral of the u. N. So there were these sort of larger than life characters, and the story just felt like it was sitting there ready to be written and read and sent back to these characters back to the moment. And so, you know, the mumbai youve told us a little about him, but actually tell us a little bit more who was this person . So he was a postal clerk and a tradesman. Like what you describe him for us, he was very much milk curial. He was extremely charismatic. I mean, i think that was one thing. His bitterest foes and his closest allies all agreed on was that this man had a silver tongue and could really just have, you know, have the crowd wrapped around his finger and it wasnt a purely emotional appeal. Also made you know convincing legal and logical arguments but he really could speak to people and campaign extremely. He was a great political organizer or to that his success. But you know as a man who also didnt really have a formal right because at the time the belgians were not allowing congolese to actually go to school. Yeah, he was an autodidact. He read furiously he joined a library to correspond courses in french. The belgian strategy was they had this phrase, no elites, no problems. And so the idea was, if you prevent a Political Class from by denying them educational opportunities, by denying them professional, then they wont start agitating for independence. The way that seemed to be happening, other colonies and that strategy i mean they were right until a point when there they were totally wrong and it blew up in their face right. And so he educated hes really a selfmade man. And then he gets into politics. How is he so after hes arrested for embezzlement, he moves to the congo. He was in this city called stanleyville, now kisangani. He moves to the capital of congo. Leopold ville and remakes himself as a beer promoter, you know, going from bar to bar his brewerys beer over another brewerys beer. And in that environment, thats 1957, 1958, there started to be the first glimmers of independence in congo, which strikingly late compared to other colonies in africa and he cofounded a political party, the Congolese National movement, he becomes friends with a journalist named joseph mobutu. And its really in leopold ville in the very late fifties that he finally becomes sort of a political actor right. And now, in terms of the larger independence movement, both across continent, but then specifically in the congo can you speak a little bit about that and something you touch on in the book . Yeah. So was striking was how late it happened in congo and the reason for that is that the belgians had a very different colonial strategy from the french and the british the french and the british. And my theory about it is that because belgium was a second rate european power, it also had a sort of less colonial policy in a way. I mean, colonialism is inherent, repressive, unjust activity. But the way the belgians pursued it was the didnt allow opportunities. They had no proto. So in french africa, which became senegal, you had you had a legislature which had certain limited powers you had a representative from french west africa sitting in the National Assembly in paris. You had none of sort of proto democratic infrastructure in congo. And so as a result when it became independent, there were fewer institutions for them to use and turn into own. And so thats then led to a lot of the crisis that lumumba stepped into in for independence. Yeah. And at a more practical level, after independence when there was a mutiny, there was this massive slate. Belgians who were sort of running the country at technical level, all the air traffic know doctors, teachers sort of thing, because it was impossible to be any of those things and be congolese. They were all belgian and then they fled. And so that at a basic fundamental level, country just didnt work at that point. So theres really no political infrastructure. Also very little hard infrastructure here at that time, right in book, you do a really good job of painting all of these different characters. It wasnt just the mumbai who was influential at the time. There were so other figures, both congolese from outside who were central characters in this whole story of essentially what made the congo of the moment and. How the congo today is affected by that. Can you tell us a little bit about some of these other folks who are in lumumbas orbit, in the political orbit, and also in the whole colonial apparatus . Sure. So one obvious one is mobutu, who starts out as lumumba is errand boy. Basically his private secretary. Hes the junior partner in the relationship, sorts through his mail in, brussels, that sort of thing. And after the mutiny, lumumba makes a fateful decision to put mobutu charge of the army because he had, mobutu had served in the military, which would end up altering the course of congolese and world, arguably. And their relationship is this fascinating thing. I mean, its this real betrayal because mobutu eventually turns on lumumba. Spoiler alert just in case you didnt know and i mean another character that i wish i could have given more space was this woman named andre bloomer who maybe some people have heard of maybe not. She was born in. French. Equatorial, then raised in an orphanage in the french congo, across the river from the belgian congo, moved to guinea and became sort of political activist and, advisor to lumumba. Eventually, in the congolese person in lumumbas permit mention is thomas kanza, his ambassador to the u. N. One of the there were fewer than 20 congolese University Graduates in the entire world upon independence. Thats because i we just need to pause on that. There were fewer than 20 graduates at that time. Yeah. So youre talking about a set of people are trying to run a country without that that without you know having the University Educations without sort of the knowledge of the political systems of congo because they were starting in this and of those 20 odd University Graduates, only two were in the government. And so that was a real deficit. I mean, the belgians basically only belatedly had this University Open that allowed. And so were talking about very few doctors that were congolese i think there was not a single congolese doctor. There was one congolese lawyer, and he slipped through the cracks because his father was italian. It was remarkable degree to which they really stand at all professional opportunities. So they were really working with very little at the time of independence. Yes. So back to thomas kanza. So he hes a fascinating figure and wrote this wonderful memoir in the seventies he had studied at harvard he met Eleanor Roosevelt there and he was lumumbas ambassador to the u. N. And how old 26, i think all right. All these people were in 20, 30 years. Lumumba at this time was 34. Okay. Im 40 now, and i have not yet run a country. You would be the grand old statesman. Exactly. Its politics and and yeah. Thomas kanza was, you know, endlessly frustrated with his friend lumumba was an ally of his. But lumumba sort of rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. He was impulsive somewhat erratic, but he was also dealing with a fast moving and lots of, you know, various plots against him. Right. And then talk about a couple of other figures, kasavubu, for example, tell us a little bit about him. So he was congos. So lumumba was Prime Minister. Kasavubu was president. He was older. He was taciturn and silent and not a man of action, but much more a wait and see and stand back and make his name by time and. He also was a of a separatist sort of he was from the congo ethnic group and sort of advocated a form their own selfrule. He advocated this you know in different ways at different times. And he also would proved crucial because he fires lumumba as Prime Minister at this key moment in september 1960. Okay. So got a couple of the main characters of this of this drama. But who from, for example the belgians. Who are some the folks there that we need to Pay Attention to that were part of this mix that created this crisis that eventually both burst into mumbai and also ended him as a leader in the belgian. Its sort of the way they i think come in my book. Perhaps its like a series faceless belgians in katanga. Thats the secessionist. There were these two diplomats deaths from all linden is the name of one and rothschild is the name of the other. And they, the belgians really backed this secession. It was coming after. The country is chaotic. The mutiny katanga, the mineral rich province that was seen as the belgian toehold like, okay, the rest of the country is in chaos. Well, well protect our mineral interests in this place. And so there were a ton of belgians on the ground there and, you know, working common cause with the locals secessionists as well. I know. I know. I mean, youve written 400 pages about this, but as best as you can, can you take us through the seeds of the crisis and how and just to set up the crisis for us so we can understand, you know, how lumumba, you know, this 34 year old man, charismatic dude. I really did just say that were going were to wind that back a little bit. But this, you know, 34 year old autodidact man now steps into and has to manage a crisis in, a quote unquote country. Right. That is the size of all of western europe where movement is not super easy. Youve got many different people, many different, you know, essentially ethnic groups that you have to manage and build coalitions with how what exactly is going on how do we get to that point. So as i mentioned theres the mutiny and then lumumba in the United Nations. Right. And sends a telegram to dag hammarskjold, the secretary. Before we get to the mutiny, lets talk. How does mumbai become Prime Minister . Oh, me . Yeah. So in his political party, the Congolese National movement is unique in that its actually promoting a unitary nationalist government and not this or that. Ethnic groups, you know, interests. And i think that becomes reason for that, as lumumba himself was from very small ethnic group, the bata tailor. And so it wouldnt have been a winning political strategy for him to advocate on behalf of his own people. And also, he had traveled widely across congo and been sort of rootless within the borders, the colony, and therefore, i think had much more of a national identity. So hes truly he feels truly congolese. Yeah. And in in a nation that is really just forming a sense of itself. Yeah. And it was, you know, it was a fiction in a way. Just lines on a map drawn in europe. But for him and for his allies, it had become real. And it was sort of i think the thinking was, well, the one thing the belgians gave us was this, you know, these borders and sense of unity. Lets like at least take that in spite of all the terrible things. And so but i think part of your question is, did the belgians agree to finally allow for independence to happen . And theyre so in 1955, there is a belgian academic who wrote an essay called the 30 year plan for the belgian congo. So the idea was that by 1985, the country would finally be ready for independence. Okay, he almost got fired because that was seen as a heretical, radical idea. It was way too soon it would take 50, 60 years. I mean, so that was in 1955. Things changed quickly. The belgians look at whats happening in algeria with the anti colonial war against the french there, and they realize they dont to have a have war to hold on to their colony. Theres a riot in the capital of congo in 1959. So belgium decides, okay, weve got to offload this colony finally, even though just ago we had to imagine that it would stay on for for decades and decades so they hold this roundtable conference in brussels with the congolese leaders. Me meeting the belgian politics organize and sort of hash out arrangement where this was in january 1960. In june the country would be independent at the very beginning of 1960, most people didnt become independent. And hold on. I just want people to take care of this. So in january, decision is made that power be transferred into a place where there are no real structures of government reign at this point in time, where you dont have a Political Class necessarily. And this country, right in quotes, is the size of, the entirety of western europe and six months later, theyre to be elections and a functioning government right. So i feel like this is kind of setup. Im just saying. Yeah, i mean the there is this sort of perverse dynamic where all the congolese politicians competing with each other to have more aggressive demands for independence, which was also understandable because, you know, they had been living under colonial rule for so long. And so why not, you know, today. Not tomorrow. And then the belgian government is also just paranoid, you know, and things the administration was sort of starting to unravel in congo. They were more protests. There were, you know, people werent paying their taxes. There were signs they were losing control. And therefore they had to rid themselves of the colony quickly as possible. So thats why thats what explains the extraordinary speed. And so they go into election and what happens and lumumba campaigns across the country with his message of a united congo and nationalism and his party wins the most votes. And so thats in may 60. And elections are widely seen as fair, fairly representative. You know, theres one argument im not sure if its entirely true that they were the fairest elections congo has ever had. And lumumb