Playing out across the front pages today. We should note that defense secretary chuck hagel was also with Martin Dempsey at the briefing at the white house and he was asked what kind of threat isis poses to the United States and heres what he said. Isil is as sophisticated and wellfunded as any group that we have seen. They are beyond just a terrorist group. They marry ideology and the sophistication of strategic and tactical military prowess. They are tremendously wellfunded. This is beyond anything that we have seen, so we must prepare for everything. The only way you do that is you take a cold steal your heart look at it. Host defense secretary chuck hagel not the only one talking about the isis threat yesterday. Here in washington, d. C. At the Heritage Foundation just off of capitol hill Texas Governor rick perry addressed the threat of isis as well and called on the u. S. To expand its military operations against joh isis and heres what he said. President obama is going to hear warnings from his party. Hes going to hear the word mission and that is all in a very valid concern. How can we not be mindful of that after what we have seen occur yet in this case it seems to me we would be remember the isis version of the mission. Thats when they start following through on the threat theyve been making by sending their recruits into this country. It may be a team of terrorists arising with passports and papers in order just like before or it may be when one of them slips across the unsecure border but what observer doubts that such an attack is not a part of their plan and who thinks it is a good idea to wait and give them more time instead of eliminating this menace right now. Host we want to know what you think about the calls to expand the u. S. Military response to isis. We will start with douglas on the line for republicans from illinois. Morning sir. I feel it was right on the money. I feel we have to eliminate them right away. And our military commanders say we should leave ten, 20,000 troops on the ground . I dont know what the High Water Mark was in terms of how many troops we ever had on the ground but i feel that we should ramp up to take care of them before they take care of us. Markemark is waiting in wiscons. Good morning. Caller good morning. Guest there are Different Countries involved and the option should be put back on the table to have people have to fund the ground. However, it should be reinstalled, number one. And number two, i think it should be paid for by taxing all stock trades. Host that is mark from wisconsin. The conversation on cspan. Russell writes in on the Facebook Page expanded . More like unleashed no more rules of engagement is his comment on the page. Further down below that greg baker writes that it should be un lead and somehow we need to cooperate with the dictators to get the job done against isis. Dont bother commenting about that because i despise the regime as much as everyone else but given the situation i dont think you can defeat isis without working with that entity. We are taking your calls and comments the first 45 minutes. This morning you can see the numbers on the screen. Phone lines are open. As we take your calls also pointing out some of the stories around the country by some of the polling that has been done on this issue as well. Usa today from this week talks about the u. S. Airstrikes in iraq and asks what concerns you more the u. S. Will take to far getting involved in this situation, 51 agree with that. 32 said it is more concerned that u. S. Will not go far enough in stopping the militants into 17 percent didnt know or have another opinion. We are asking your opinion this morning and also has your opinion of the threats change over the past two weeks since the strikes began in iraq. Lets go to mikes waiting on the line for democrats. Good morning. Caller good morning. We need to make sure what is the origin of the problem and what the isis object if its too formed caliphate throughout the middle east. Thats not going to happen unless all of these middle eastern dictatorships are destroyed and replaced by the isis caliphate. The u. S. Policy unfortunately through the bush freedom agenda of the other consequence was to destabilize all these middle eastern dictatorships that have a natural incentive to keep a lead on islamic extremism precisely because their vital objectives and healed removal of these governments into so the obama response to the arab spring was lackluster as well not recognizing the consequences of whats going to happen if we remove the governments that maybe they dont share our Democratic Values but they do share our strategic goal of preventing a caliphate from forming. Host what do you do in the mouth and . Do you think the threat can be contained in syria and iraq ask caller ultimately we would go back to a system where the governments themselves possess the military hardware and would have a very strong incentive to exit schedule to defeat isis themselves and i dont think they will sit back and do nothing and just a short we will go by the wayside in with caliphate take over. You can ask the saudi king asad himself was fighting to to serious. I dont like any of them on a psychological level. My gut reaction is lets wipe them off the face of the map they are barbarians but you have to look at the broad picture of what the strategic goals are and to judge it dispassionately. I think it is incredibly difficult to decide can we do a targeted strike to take out the bad actors such as isis without further destabilizing the situation and not letting the people who have a natural incentive to defeat isis to do so. If you have airstrikes in the middle east youre going to get a lot of people who have nothing to do with isis so thats my opinion. Host renee is in Los Angeles California on the line for republicans. Good morning. Caller good morning. Its really sad what happened to mr. Foley. However i believe the airstrikes are about as far as i want to go. I dont want to see on the ground. Weve lost enough lives. We are over in iraq and yet we cant continue to police the world. No more boots on the ground. Host you bring up the journalist that was beheaded in iraq by isis. Do you think that has changed Public Opinion in the country . You say it may not hav may not d your opinion on getting more involved but what do you see from the folks you talk to . Caller again it was sad what happened but it was his choice to be over there and i think this is another way of isis just saying this is what we did. I feel sorry for what happened to him but i just dont want to see anymore of our troops being killed over there. Thats what most of my friends are saying is weve just got to kind of stay out of it. Host renee from los angeles. Usa today has a column on the james foley death and what the u. S. Response should be. The headline isis sends a severed head. What is our response . He writes the dramatic death was news media breakthrough for isis that rather thabut rather than e report from the fact americans should understand it as a direct expression of isis and its creed. Isis send a message the only question is what message the United States will send back. Has your opinion changed on the isis fret over the past two weeks over the course of the u. S. Airstrikes that have happened . Is go to marry in california on the line for democrats. Good morning. Caller good morning. I was just wondering the military said today they wan wad to strikes in serious and iraq to subdue isis. Where do the airstrikes stop . Are we going to put boots on the ground or just airstrikes . We are supposed to be out of iraq. We are supposed to be getting out of afghanistan and im sorry about the journalist had lost his life but i just dont see going to war is never glamorous but i just think we should do nothing. Bombing serious and bombing iraq maybe we should view in a few others. Maybe egypt isnt going to please us were turkey. When is it going to stop . Host do you think that is where this is going when we hear these comments by mr. Hagel . Caller and the general come i forget his name, the strikes in serious. We are spending how many millions for the chemical weapons we sold to serious out. Its war all the time. Its got to stop. Thats my opinion. Host lets go to marvin waiting in birmingham alabama on the line for independence. Good morning. Caller good morning. Host goahead, marvin. Caller lets just be honest it was u. S. Drones, u. S. Foreign policy and the Rightwing Bush Administration thats mostly started all of the destabilization of the socalled middle east. [inaudible] theyve taken over libya and we provide our tax dollars they are trying to take over in syria and so we need to look at the reality of who we get in bed with. We created this crazy isis and we should deal with the fact we need to stop destabilizing these governments even if they dont want to be in bed with it would be better than isis and control. Host marvin in birmingham alabama this morning. We are asking your thoughts on some of these calls for the expansion of the u. S. Military response to isis in iraq and in serious. The u. S. Military presence may prompt congress to weigh in specifically on the troop action. Quoting saying this isnt an Administrative Task but truly it is about the power issue and i think its one that has been breached clearly by not only this administration but prior administrations in the authority of the presidency. Another quote from the congresswoman on this issue many of my colleagues share concerns over the Mission Creed in isis and the passage of the Iraq Resolution with a clear indicator that Congress Much of a role in every future military action in iraq. Iraq. But also playing out on the pages of the New York Times as well. The headline despite they are weary of the u. S. Military expansion one other member of congress quoted him as piece is the democratic in california he says most democrats are extraordinarily weary of being sucked into a large education because it will kill a lot of americans and we saw in iraq the last time that it didnt work. We will read that in todays New York Times. Lets go to jack this morning. Although good morning. I wanted to mention that when the president refused to go ahead and bomb syria for the thread whining that he drew got all of those chemical weapons out of serious with the help of putin. We would be in big trouble now. Thank you. From the state department on the u. S. Airstrikes thereve been 90 over the past two weeks since august 8 since those airstrikes began. Those coming from yesterday in the state department. Lets go to jeff waiting in minnesota on the line for republicans. Good morning. Caller hello . Host youre on the washington journal. Caller thanks for taking me. My view is this is no surprise what happened. I served eight years in the military. They mean business. I understand the stress of it but its extremely dangerous and i dont know what it will take for the stronger message and we cant afford to do anything. We have to put boots on the ground in order to get themselves out. Among those calling for increased action a group of human rights activists and state leaders circulating the petition that was started by the mccormick professor at Princeton University and the iraq rescue. Org saying that we call upon the United States into the community to do everything necessary to empower local forces fighting isis come isil in iraq. Consistent with the principle of the doctrine we further believe that the United States goals would be more comprehensive than simply clamping a shortterm live on the wailing violins that is threatening so many innocents in the isils path. Nothing short of the instruction as a fighting force would provide longterm protection of the victims. That petition signed by a thousand so far including the president of the ethics and religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist convention. Benjamin carson, Johns Hopkins pediatrician Plastic Surgery and wellknown conservative speaker and thinker. As we talk about the call to expand that response and whether your opinion has changed on the past two weeks. Good morning. I would like to see us withdraw. Nobody has talked about how much it costs in iraq suggest after the ordinance. Where are the jordanians, the saudis, the egyptians a all have sophisticated air force. I think we should just withdraw and let isis go to the borders when these people are willing to help us then we can return. I dont see how the United States has the responsibility to be the sole provider of the air cover in the countries that dont want to help. For the troops to do training we did that and 20,000 iraqis dump their uniforms and weapons and ran. So how are you going to get those people to defend their country . We already lost 5,000 troops and nobody talks about it, but theres ten times that that are needed and have arms and legs blown off and have their minds mound and we are responsible for 50 or 60,000 veterans that need to be taken care of forever. This stuff that we are doing is nonsense. Host they are bringing up the calls to come to congress and to seek approval of what hes doing. Where do you stand on whether the president needs to go to congress and get them behind this effort . Caller they are responsible for taking us to the war and leaving it to the presidency because they dont want to commit to anything as ridiculous. I dont see this thing. Everything we touched a starkly i was a history major and everything we touch historically has turned. We got rid of Saddam Hussein and now we are fighting sunnis and because we put in the government we turned the iraq he hegemony over to iraq. Weve got to get out. We are borrowing 40 cents on the bowledollar to do all that we ae doing over there. The headline of his opinion piece when the u. S. Abdicates the disaster usually follows he writes the withdrawal of american peacekeeping forces have almost invariably lead to catastrophe. He writes it is impossible to predict the future and equally impossible to the neighboring syria the sobering fact is that president obamas disengagement from the region as a matter of political principle and he is unlikely to alter his course at the evidence of american withdraw is now palpable and clear as the image of the isis atrocities. What is more worrisome . The result to sustain the burden of leadership or the prospect of a world in chaos and uncertainty . Thats his piece in the wall street journal if you want to read it. In new york on the line for independent. Good morning. Caller thank you for having me. Its my first time calling in. In relation to the United States politics i believe that our Foreign Policy to this point has created this threat and that is something we need to take into consideration before considering extra military force. Now i do belief it is far more real than anything we have ever faced but there is a place for the military involvement. I think that it needs to be held as well because the United States is looking to be going after Something Like this alone. They looked into specifically what those specifi specific thre and why isis is such a threat. Some of the issues they bring up in their analysis is the better in troops. The story noting that it includes experienced officers from Saddam Husseins regime and also notes the part of the reason it is such a threat is that several thousand fighters may hold passports of western nations including 10250 americans. There may be more muslim british subjects fighting for the Islamic State and fo for britais military. The defense confirmed there are about 600 british muslims and its armed forces at home and abroad. Government estimates put the number of the state fighters in serious and iraq at 500 to 800 the other reason its such a threat is the territory that isis controls the Islamic State controlled its own territory which gives it a secure base to plan, train, regroup and recruit. If you want to read more of the breakdown that is the lead story in usa today. On the line for republicans. Caller thank you for having me on this morning. I think the border has kind of gotten knocked off of the same pages in recent days over the isis problem but it seems to me that and im not much in favor of the boots on the ground either but if we dont do something we will have boots on the ground over here and they arent going to be ours. I live pretty close and i like our friends from the south and they are good hardworking people. All of these people have come over here and they are not all kids. They get people stirred up pretty good all over this country. Host one other story on the u. S. Foreign policy this story from the watchdog they broke the law talking about the Prisoner Exchange they broke the law when it transferred the fivetime and detainees from Guantanamo Bay from the Government Watchdog Agency the Government Accountability office into the pentagon violated the 2014 defense appropriations act which requires the pentagon to give certain congressional committees 30 days of advance notice before any detainee transfers from wonton amount they happened. The sevenpage finding is in response by the rate doubled in law may curse for an opinion which has fresh criticism of the Obama Administration decision to swap the taliban commanders. Thats a story from the hill also had several other papers today. The rollcall paper noting that one senator republican senator on capitol hill wan wants a spel counsel to investigate president obama on the Senate Intelligence committee wants a special counsel from the department of justice to investigate the swap that happened. Thats senator Saxby Chambliss. The legal decision from the Government Accountability office validates the argument that ive been making with my colleagues against the administration release of the taliban five by failing to notify congress 30 days in advance as required by the fiscal 2014 National Defense authorization the president completely disregarded the law duly passed by congress and signed by his own hand. Theres a picture of senator Saxby Chambliss in the picture as well. Lets go to melting waiting on the line for democrats as we continue this discussion on your thoughts on the call to expand the u. S. Response to isis. Good morning. Caller how are you doing this morning . Im glad to be speaking this morning. These people, isil, isis, these are some very wicked people. I watched foley for many years in the news that hes a good journalist and what they did to him, im just tired of these type of people acting the way they act to us. We need to bring forth our whole force, nuke them because if we dont do what we have to do, if we dont put boots on the ground we need to nuke them. I understand there are innocent folks that are going to be hurt and killed, but a lot of innocents are going to be hurt and killed here if we dont stop them. The show view a clip earlier from the Texas Governor rick perry and his speech at the Heritage Foundation thats part of that appearance at the Heritage Foundation he talked about the recent indictment filed against him on the charges of abuse of power. Its a story thats been dominating some of the headlines in texas and as the journalists look to the future of the president ial contender here is what rick perry had to say you got that indictment yesterday. Theres interesting things going on in my home state and there are few Public Officials in the county who have taken issue with an exercise of my constitutional veto authority. These are fundamentally principles that are very important. Namely a governors power to veto legislation and funding and the rights of free speech. I am very confident in my case and i can assure you that i will fight this attack of our system of government and with my fellow citizens both republicans and democrats i am to defend our constitution and stand up for the rule of law in the state of texas. For more on this story i want to turn to the dallas morning news. Hes a senior Political Writer and joins us now by phone. Are you with us this morning . Thanks for taking the call to talk about texas politics. We are talking about the texas rick peary and for the folks that are still coming to the story t can you first explain wt the indictment is about and what the government is being charged with . Caller the governor vetoed 7. 5 million last year of the state taxpayer money that goes to the travis county. The District Attorney in traviss county for many years has been responsible for a long other things investigating and prosecuting public corruption when politicians do something wrong this is the agency that handles that and gets some state money to supplement the budget to handle it. The governor decided to veto the state money for this agency. He did it he said because the District Attorney last year was arrested and convicted of drunk driving so he said he lost confidence and she did not deserve the state money. Republicans have been after this agency for more than a decade. It is dealt unfairly with republicans and it is indicted republicans and democrats in the past most recently kay bailey hutchison. The group filed a complaint a special prosecutor was named and peary was indicted for abusing his authority at least that is the indictment in for coercion. He was charged with vetoing money using taxpayer money to try to muscle a duly elected county official out of office regardless of what the voters in that county want to say. Now rick perrys response is look at governors can veto money. Thats one of the Constitutional Rights that they have to do and theres nothing wrong with anything he did invite being put on trial for political reasons. Host the author why the conventional wisdom in the wreck. And i think story might be incomplete if you want to check that out. Walk us through the mechanics of the file. Many may have seen the mugshots that was released. What is next and how long is it going to be drawn out . Caller that is a good question. Ive talked to his lawyers and they would like them to move on this as quickly as possible to resolve it. The governor says he is innocent and wants to be proven innocent. Second committee was considering running for president in 2016 and the worst thing, not the worst thing that a good thing to have happen is if you are in iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina and every news story has the word and i commend, that is not ideal. They are expected to try to get the charges washed and basically saying the governor is allowed to constitutionally to exercise their right as a veto and if that doesnt work then to ask for the Summary Judgment to say fairly quickly to the judge we all agree on the facts you veto the money and he has a constitutional right to veto money the question is a matter of law. If that constitutes illegal coerciocoercion that he steppedr the line by linking to things and heres a way to explain that. Its legal to veto money or a bill and also for someone to say i want someone else to leave office because ive lost confidence in them. But it can be the the prosecution says. But if the judge can throw this out and rule in his favor they can lose all of this in a matter of a few us otherwise this is going to go for months well into next year before it could go to trial. He is not likely to settle or drop the case and so if neither side will deal and they likely wont then peary could be on trial for the abuse of power and illegal coercion at some point as early as next summer or next fall. What did you make of rick perry and that appearance and how hes been speaking about the case . We are talking politically. His lawyers will figure out the legal theory to argue to the court. The other is the political route. What do you do right off the bat he got out in front of the story and said this is politics. They are out to get me and its unfair and its not right. Im going to be clear at every stop and just as you said yesterday at the Heritage Foundation speech he looked confident, he looked like a person that is ready to take on the world. The Political Team says not only say youre innocent, but exudes the confidence of someone who is innocent and the results will be among other things they hope to rally conservative republicans in places like all over the country that places like iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina who will see him screaming the messages i am standing up to democrats and i am a fighter. They think that is a very appealing political message as well as the obvious expression of innocence that he wants to project. Postcode a Senior Writer with the political news always appreciate you joining us on the washington journal. We have a few minutes left on the washington journal this morning we are asking the viewers to call and give your thoughts on the expanded u. S. Military response to isis. Some trweets coming in over the course of the show. The past is the past we must defeat them. They are killing innocents, our friends in fact. After seeing what has happened in ferguson dont we have enough problems of our own to solve, and one other tweet though you cant kill your way to peace. Doziedoes your citydozier city r independence. Good morning. I served in the military and the air force in iraq, iran in 75. They were our friends at the time. I spent a year over there. These people are digging into these peoples business over in the middle east. They unsettled the middle east over there and the statements by what was that they said if you break it you own it is coming back to haunt us now and the guy from michigan stole my thunder. He made a statement i want to make a statement also why cant they use the money to set up the soldiers . We have a bunch of people in the country they have all the answers and all the guns and they throw those military troops out of there. So many of the soldiers brought them back home and dumped them on the streets and we dont have money to take care of them. I want you to listen to me. I was watching this thing for a long time. You put those republicans back in office and going right back into that club. Thank you. Host in louisiana this morning. One other tweet we want to show you from the House Majority leader Kevin Mccarthy who writes my prayers are with the family and colleagues of james foley who was beheaded this week by isis. He says isis has been to be the purest form of evil and must be confronted directly. Thats from the recently majority leader of the house. Lets go to billy bob wading in illinois on the line for independent. Good morning. Caller i was a Battalion Surgeon and the bombin yet nonf the 75,000. I saw the hoax of the vietnam war and i was recruited by the international in saudi arabia in 1984 and stood on the bunker before the war even started and the best security for the king of saudi arabia chief of orthopedics and in our unit our security was arafat and that seems awful strange to me in 1984 and it was all a hoax and i could see that there were a lot of things that were not right over there in saudi arabia. So i would suggest we just come home and let them fight it out. Theres nothing we can do over there. They dont like women. So i think these guys are english doing the beheading that tells you they were special forces from the day should leave them alone and they cant even decide what side they want to fight. On the page of the Financial Times bank of america settles for a record 17 billion. Bank of america agreed to pay 16. 72 billion resolve allegations that misled investigators and its mortgagebacked securities barking a milestone in the United States government attempt to hold banks accountable in the financial crisis and the agreement between bank of america and the Justice Department the Securities Exchange commission and generals was the largest civil settlement with a single entity in american history. On the financial front janet is expected to address the kansas city conference for the first time in the Federal Reserve chairwoman. Janet knows that her speech will be scrutinized according to the Financial Times and the story notes that she may choose to emphasize they will raise Interest Rates earlier than planned if Economic Data keeps coming in stronger than expected if you want to read that story. In the exception of the newspapers and finally this story from the New York Times the patient rebels and miraculous days as he and another exit hospital is a picture on thursday during the announcement of his relief from Emory University hospital in atlanta im thrilled to be alive, be well and be reunited with my family is the quote that he said the hospital released a statement saying it was confident that the discharge poses no Public Health threat after his battle. Time for a few more of your calls we will get to as many as we can in there in North Carolina on the line for republicans. Good morning. Caller can you hear me ask i am not in favor of the boot on the ground but the considerable countries taking up the fight is something i agree with. However since thats probably not going to happen and we will probably end up getting involved, obama needs to go on to television and speak to the American People and tell them what the war against these people would entail it would be very nasty. They dont have defined frontlines with the 365 to the hide behind the skirts of women and children and to defeat them, we are going to have to do some very nasty fighting and probably commit war crimes so obama needs to ask the American People if he wants to send troops to the middle east again, do we have the stomach for this kind of fight . We dont have the stomach for it anymore. We dont know how to win the war because winning the hearts and minds doesnt do it. Its just like the oldfashioned white patent says in world war ii you dont win the war by dying in the country you make the other person by for his country and the cause. But to do that today is a very nasty fight and we probably have to commit more crimes to beat these guys and is the American Public ready for that . Host jerry, good morning. Caller i think that we are getting a bill of goods by the government they always take things seem worse than they were. But uwe got to the run to the ie wor more by the army until thy threw down their arms and they havent confronted them yet but they were out of them very easily and they gave up where they were holding all of those people and they were free. They are an army of powerful fighters. We should be involved. Are you against airstrikes as well . Caller im not against airstrikes im against boots on the ground. Host nashville tennessee on the line for independence. Good morning. Caller good morning i agree with the other gentleman that called and if you did the National Poll right now is the americans would agree with those gentlemen as i do. You bring everybody home and let them fight it out or you drop of utah mcdonaghs 160 where i sit right now and the japanese surrendered. They wear skirts. More discussion on the situation in ferguson missouri we took a look at whats going on and tried to put it in historical context. From the washington journal this is just under an hour. Host as we turn our attention back to ferguson missouri and it has its place in the civil unrest in the United States. First i want to get your take on how the white house has handled the crisis. You wrote this week president obama seems trapped by the racial divide over whats happening in ferguson and around the country. What did you mean by god . Caller this had a mandate on the candidacy and the official mandate resolved the racial turmoil. This was an unwritten subtext to the election and when we get an e. Election like this people turned the light off and say what this president obama going to say. Whether it was henry gates in cambridge or the martin case or various others it is a bit more somber and cautious. But we have over 40 fbi agents swayed hinckley double the population that its been interesting to watch because no matter what he does at this time, his critics are going to say that he is doing too much while supporters are not giving enough. Host is happening in the context of the civil unrest . This situation happened half a century after the riots in the mid60s. Can you talk about what was happening then and if you see any similarities to the situation . As to why one of the people around that remembers that. But yes 50 years ago this summer its not something we celebrate but 50 years ago the riots broke out in harlem and new york which nobody knew at the time but with five years of the urban riots in the country and the next year they occur out of los angeles in the terrible loss of life and property that made bigger history that right up through the Martin Luther king and 68 with about 100 cities around the country and washington, d. C. , chicago and other places but i like to think that we have learned some things from the period so it was a double shot when we saw the fires in the night over ferguson missouri and in the perspective ive written about this ferguson didnt Pay Attention to the lessons in the 60s and the number one lesson is never underestimate the impact of Police Brutality allegations in the africanamerican community. Host president Lyndon Johnson wanted to learn things from the riot happened in the mid60s and a special commission to study the issue here is president johnson from july 1967 talking about that commission. In an attack on the spare. Ons of all of us know what those conditions are. Discrimination, slums, poverty, disease, not enough jobs. We should attack these because we are fired by conscience. We should attack them because there is no other way to achieve a decent and Orderly Society in america. The commission that he was talking about is known as the Kerner Commission. These are some of their findings. The nation is moving towards two societies. How did Lyndon Johnson take those concluons anose recoti guest he ignored them. First of all, johnson appointed the commission, historians now tell us, because he was convinced, remember he just pass a Civil Rights Act and 64, the Voting Rights act and 65. What happened days later, the watts riots. He appoints the commission and 67 after more riots, puerto rican riot in chicago. He was wondering why this would be happening after so much, so many important event, civil rights. He concluded reserves the possibly that the communists, soviets were somehow plotted this and start this. J. Edgar hoover was certainly convinced of that. What Lyndon Johnson had in mind when the appointed the commission, it mixed very well with his Great Society programs. You got to prep school, housing, ma et cetera, et cetera. Johnson pursued what he was going to do anyway and pretty much ignored the current commissions findings. The private sector didnt ignore them, particularly the media. I was in college at the time that i was the only black major journalism major at that point. It turned out to be fortuitous because across the country, they were looking for reporters and photographers they could send it to the data which without looking too conspicuous. I had a flood of job offers, about five what is graduating. The biggest one from the Chicago Tribune. But the summer of 68 i was in dayton, ohio. This gives me their personal. This is my generation. This was an important breakthrough point for africanamericans across the country. I would say from my point you of view there was more action going and the private sector source responding with a Kerner Commission report but there were so many changes going on in the 60s, all blend together. Host what you mean by the private sector . Entrance of jobs moving in . Guest corporation. Ill talk about the building of the black middle class. We have been suppressed as a people for 100 years since the civil war and reconstruction, and they illustrated very well, madman at the very beginning starts in 1960. You dont see any people of color. Been with you get the black secretary thats a big we were colors in those days, or negro. Really middleclass workplaces gaza country, and it is comical to think back now to those days back when we were colored. But at the time things were a bit tense. Folks wondered how white people would accommodate this kind of desegregation but it turned out, people bent over backwards to demonstrate how they would not a racist, try to keep black people out. It actually went remarkably smoothly. Host were talking with Clarence Page from the Chicago Tribune. User to take your questions and comments as we talk about ferguson and try to put in the context of civil unrest in the history of this country. Our phone lines are open if you want to call him. Before get to the collars and one of the question weve seen of the commissions, the commissioner Christopher Commission after 1992 in los angeles. Guest either what almost every city has had a commission after riots. Host do these commissions ever get the attention of the president . Does congress ever act on the recommendations of the commissions . You talked about the history of the Kerner Commission . Guest stepping back everybody comes to these commissions with their own agendas. If youre liberal you have one agenda because conservatives have another one. All those ideas get mixed together. What gets implemented depends on who the leadership is in the city or the state that leads the Commission Report. That makes sense because we talk about a very complex problem as far as range raised his permission and opportunity which has always been americas original sin, even in our founding like this they had trouble wrestling with the word slavery in there. Its still the case today. I think what we see 50 years after the 60s is there is a new black middle class more than doubled in size in 20 years after 1965. But we still love it even more isolated like underclass if you will. Thats what were seeing from ferguson right next door to st. Louis. Nice immunity. Looks like a nice workingclass community, but look at the number, the percentage of people and Free Lunch Program in the public schools. These are the indicators that tell you poverty problems. And back to the police, talk about riots, its almost every case with exception of dr. Kings assassination of course, but almost every other riot that happened back in the 60s and then ferguson now it gets touched off by a Police Confrontation and a fatalities or somebody getting beat up. Host were talking with claris Clarence Page. We will start with david frum st. Joseph, missouri, on our line for republicans. David, good morning. Caller good morning. Look, im going to try to keep this low but im so fed up with this idea that people because of their race or because of their misfortune are entitled to commit violent acts, and when they commit violent acts and a cop has to shoot them, it doesnt matter anymore it seems like if they could practically kill the cop. And if he manages to shoot them and stop them, hes the bad guy. The perpetrator is always the good guy. Helpless, innocent guy. You have seen it in these bloody protests. The more the evidence goes, the forensic evidence and eyewitnesses go to support the cops version of events, the more agitated the protesters get. Even got them complaining well, theres this from showing the cops not hurting, is walking around. The problem is its not the cop that was attacked. The cop that was attacked was at the hospital. This is another officer going around and theyre trying to claim its the officer which was attacked which was of course another lie. Host some issues the caller brings up, also brought in a column today in the washington times, the needy and the mob casting blame based on should have into with jim crow. Your response . Guest the call is expressing a very widespread sentiment, but i think you can see when you talk about the people who make accusations of police misconduct, contrast first of with st. Louis where we have a video of a man being shot to death by two Police Officers here in recent days. And look at the difference. In ferguson we see people accusing the police of possibly murdering this young man who was killed, but the Ferguson Police department has made it worse by not releasing information about it. And any Government Agency that keeps a lid on something this important is inviting negative public backlash. Why does yo have a negative pubc backlash in st. Louis where you can see the police opening fire on this young man who looks and arranged in all honesty, some people are calling it suicide by cop. But the fact was within 90 minutes the police chief was in front of the press on the scene and string questions. I think people letting people know just what happened. And meanwhile, over in ferguson after the young man there was killed, his body lay out there in the street for four hours and police still have not, havent let reporters see the police report. It took them a week just to release the name of the Police Officer who did the firing, et cetera, et cetera. Call the lessons of the Kerner Commission days have been lost on the ferguson authorities. I can only imagine that if history proceeds to what has in the past we are going to see ferguson voters wake up and start to turn out to vote and we may very well see the administration there in ferguson replaced next time around. Host were some of those commute haitian issues brought up in the Kerner Commission report . Guest absolutely. They talked about the bad relations between police and the other committee whether riots broke out. You had a long simmering stories of brutality misconduct are just disrespect to the local community. They were very few, if any, officers of color on the police forces. There you saw some real changes in subsequent years, but what do we see in ferguson now . The whole police force has only three black officers. When the police chief thats not true, weve got a couple of Asian Pacific islanders, two. Im not quoting them indirectly directly but that more or less was his response. Like the caller who called in sick and tired of minorities complaining about this sort of thing. Minorities are sick and tired of having to complain. So we have two nations. And by the way, apple this week, shows the same kind of divide we saw after the o. J. Simpson verdict and the Kerner Commission comeback and six these. Host you said you want to respond, seem to be in the minority. We all know what is happening since then and theres been a complete disgrace by politicians, immediat the mediae mobs of writers and lose. All the people who act as we know exactly what happened nevertheless when the full facts come out, that can change everything. This is why we have courts of law instead of relying on the media or mobs. Guest i agree with that. Hes right. We need to let the wheels of justice turn your why is the country so heated up over this . Racial eruptions under budget episode that sparked the public response to they are about long some issues have been building up for a while and take something dramatic like a Police Officer shooting somebody to make things up, explode into the frontpage headlines. Otherwise they just simmering in the background uzbek headlines today coming out of ferguson. This in usa today. After relative calm, Governor Nixon orders card withdraw from ferguson. And eric holder sees a chance for reform in the city as a headline from usa today. We are taking your calls and comments as we talk with Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune trying to do whats happening in ferguson in the context of civil unrest in this country. Lets go to betty from illinois honor democrats line. Good morning. Caller good morning. Im a 75 year old, and when president obama ran the first time, he ran on hope. And he gave a lot of young black men hope, even me. And once he got in, even my grandkids say, oh, granny, i can be president. But once president obama got in and the young people saw how hes been treated, disrespected, people hollering july, and give he tries to defend black people, just like mr. Page said, he had to have a tea party, but what he said about the police when the man was at his own home. And all the hope is gone, and i think thats what has happened in missouri. They have no more hope because they thought they had help with the first africanamerican president. And thank you, mr. Page, for being on. Guest thank you. Appreciate your call. I think i feel like theres always hope. Maybe im just a cockeyed optimist, but, frankly, i was a realist when barack obama was elected. I was delighted to see that this country has matured enough to be able to elect a president of color, and soon i imagine a woman who will be president as well. Thats the promise of america. Many of my friends rejoice in that much whether they agree with barack obama politics or not. I also knew though that the morning after he was elected and after he was inaugurated, hes got to govern. I knew that is going to be problems because that expecting the ferocity of the backlash that occurred, eruption of a tea party and the way that it did. And Tea Party Folks will tell you, and Identity Party rallies and all, that they were already forming before barack obama was elected. But hes election energized that backlash. I should know, im old enough to member what happened after the civil rights reform for the 60. George wallace energized a backlash at the time which we saw eventually build after Barry Goldwater lost in 64, eventually Ronald Reagan won in 1980. This is been very chronicled. Its the nature of our politics in this country. We dont like to swing one way to far with us when you right back in the other direction. I think were in that backwards swing period right now in the u. S. As far as the rise of conservatives. But at the same time i dont think the barack obama images asian is going to go away, obviously. I know that because i look at my own son who is in his 20 and who is interracial. These millennials coming along, these kids come young people have different attitudes than older folks do. My kids is more of a realist house of representatives florida is up next. Calling in on our line from independence. Caller good morning. I just like to say that when are we going to stop all this foolishness . We are a mixed nation of people. There is no pure white and pure black in this country. Weve been living together for what, three, 400 years . You actually there is a black and a white . That is the reason for what . What is the real push behind that . It looks like greed. Thats what it looks like. Host what do you mean by greed . Caller some people want to have everything and have others do the dirty work. Some people want to be in charge. They want to have control. Thats what its been like all for them to build ones that are out of this individual is the native that were here. They are on a reservation. We are next. Guest you know, i think the gentleman is talking about politics. The fact is politics is what, the manipulation of power, and while answering the question, who controls, whose in charge. And we find that race is used, has been used and probably will be used for the foreseeable future as a tool for political manipulation, even by the right or the left. I dont see race. Thats a joke. Anybody who says that, i dont see race and all that. Wake up to the fact is everybody tells us, can see race. But for you all dont put it on the auditor whether you have blue eyes or brown eyes or what ever. A parent gives values to our young people and tell them that racism is supposed to make us different. You dont want to for yourself or anybody else by saying that race is not important in our society but it certainly is. Host how far have we come since the Kerner Commission . Guest very far. The doubling of the black middle class, the poverty rate when i went to college was officially five, with over 60 of the black poverty rate. By middle 80s it was down a little over 30 . By mid 1990s it was down to 24 . It is recently risen again to 27 . Economics never stays stable. They move up and down. Economically weve come a long way. However, we find that todays blackboard, the gap between black haves and havenots is not greater than the gap between blacks and whites was at the time of the Kerner Commission report. Its not just raise. Its the last. Host the Kerner Commission report, the washington joe, president johnson form the 11 member then called the National Advisory commission on civil disorder in july 1967. The goal was to determine the cause of the summer 1960s riots. 2 million americans bought copies of the 426 page document and president johnson and the noted ultimately rejected the commissions conclusion aspect 2 million, this was a best seller at the time. I think they change report on sex is maybe the only book that sold more. Host paul on our line for republicans. Paula, good morning. Caller yes, good morning and thank you for the program. First thing want to say is half the problem but never simply wants to say president obama is africanamerican. Host what do you mean . Caller we used to say he was mulatto because his mother was white and his father was africanamerican. He is neither both black nor both why. The sickening i like to say [inaudible] guest why is it useful to point out . Caller because you cant say hes a black man or a white man. Hes an american president who was elected by the people in this country who tried to help us resolve issues both before he was in office, during his presidency, and hopefully his leadership after office. This hole blackwhite thing is a bunch of garbage. You had a young man get killed unfortunately. Its happening all over the country, and why is nobody saying wait a minute. This is a lack of communication, okay . You cant have people get mad at the police when the police are not being, you know, brought to their tenured as friends of people who will protect them from true criminals. Guest very true. The reason why its important is not a buzz are pure black or white in this country. We are a mulatto nation. We are the one country that has the one drop rule. If youre one drop of black blood in your background, you are black. Thats an awful powerful blood. Its like one drop of ink in a big gallon of milk were talking about. I think its academics talk about it was mulatto and who is in the fact of the matter is raised, you have two races in this country. The race you assigned to yourself, your identity, and what you see when you look at somebody else. The first thing you see. Look at barack obama, the first thing they see is this man is not white, and thats really what matters in politics. Plus and minus. Its safe to say barack obama was elected in part because he turned his race into a plus, or i should say races into a plus factor in discussion because of what they represent. It wasnt just because he was black that he is elected as more cynical detractors say. But it was important for the folks in this country to be able to know that america has advanced enough. Barack obama was born illegal in this country. In hawaii it was okay. Im not one of those who thinks his boat in kenya. But the fact is it shows you how much this country has advanced since the 60s. Host we are talking with Clarence Page. Should note a Pulitzer Prize winner for commentary and its 30th anniversary collection of columns will be released next month called culture warrior. Reflections on race, politics and social change. You got to say it right, culture warrior. Not warrior. Host is taking the calls and comments about the next 20 minutes or so he on the washington journal. Lets go to glenn in lakeland fought on our line for democrats. Good morning. Caller good morning. I guess my issue is with the question and a comment. The thing that gets me right now, looking at this entire situation with ferguson since it started, and i know that as far as the media goes, its all catered towards black people. You have the mayor of the city, i mean the mayor of the town, you have the city council members, all the elected officials that are wide. You have a 57 africanamerican population. They dont get talked to. The media doesnt interview them. You havent seen the other. You have captain ron brown they brought in from the state police. You have the governor under because of the fact this is going national, international. But the bottom line is the power structure of the city does not, they are given a pass. Theyre not given the responsibility of being out there with the people and asking a question. Its almost like you have a divided give all of the black people there and the white folks that are in the power structure they are nothing has with any responsibility for answering any questions. Guest a reference to that earlier, the anomaly of having a predominant black city and an overwhelmingly White City Council. Why is that . Well, its interesting turnout, election sur turn it. They have local elections in the spring when the regular elections are in november, the National Elections i should say, the last National Election 2012, the black turnout was on a percentage point less than the white turnout in ferguson. That was the barack obama election the have over the next local election which was in the springtime, the turnout for blacks and whites was way down but much lower for blacks than for whites. And as a result you guided in this predominantly overwhelming we White City Council white Police Department et cetera. Im interested see what happens in the next election because it sounds like ferguson, and i mean ive seen this happen in chicago and dayton, ohio, and numerous other cities. When local people are upset thats when they turn up to vote and if you like they can make a difference. So the people of ferguson, black and white, need to let democracy work for them. Id be interested to see what happens in all this stuff. Host how quickly do you think this story fits into the background and people start forgetting what happened during august 2014 . Guest i think it is its been a member in a special way like the name katrina or the name fallujah and every other big disaster. It becomes part of us. For that matter chicago, i know from experience, its known for everything from al capone to Michael Jordan and people dont forget those things. You dont have to write about them everyday. This has become, every time i hear of watts i think of the riot in 65. Watts is a very different committed than a very Different Committee that was the but everybody still makes reference to it in the right about watts. So i think ferguson, something is kind of a wakeup call i like to think or a teachable moment as some people call it, that certainly weve seen the way local authorities have behaved, how not to avoid a riot in your town. Host you bring up chicago. Heres an email from becky was watching her, why isnt there an uproar about all the black killings in chicago transferred there is an uproar. I hear this every day. Why isnt there an uproar about the black killings in chicago compared to the one black killing . Theres so many Different Reasons and responsive. For one thing ive been covering civil rights since it was a student in the 1960s. I have seen reverend jesse jackson, reverend al sharpton, numerous, cause i talk about black on black crime. Costly talk about this horrendous homicide rate. Talk about black youth. Chicago june webpage every dag gone day we have stories on the front page of our webpage about fatalities, the neighbors are chicago. Why dont they get more attention . Because they are in isolated poor neighborhoods im talking about, mostly black or hispanic communities that are isolated economically, legally and socially. So while youre having fun with the tourists and the unserved wonderful parts of chicago, and is the best player on the city by the way, there are still people dying in a more isolated neighborhoods. So it becomes part of the background noise, doesnt . I would be so upset at people saying what about the kids back in chicago . I suspect theyre trying to change the subject from the tragedy in ferguson. Host next call from round rock texas on the line for independence. Good morning. Caller good morning. I am 63 years old and i live in round rock which is right outside of austin, texas. Weve had several Police Shootings of black men and would doing a talk on the Radio Station and i called in and asked the police chief. I said, how many white people have been killed by black or hispanic Police Officers. Id. I 63 years of being here in this area, none. But then i asked him, now, how many black people have been killed by white Police Officers, and with the ever armed . And the question was, several and all of them were unarmed. So ive got a problem with that. They can say what they want. They can do what they want. The principle is youre supposed to be taught as a Police Officer how to handle somebody thats unarmed. Now, one thing that is looking up in our favor, some of the families have been granted over 1 million in settlements for these incidences, which never happened before but are starting to happen now. And maybe this will change the reaction. But our black Police Officers and hispanic Police Officers better controlled Police Officers than white . Guest this is an ongoing problem, but i think it is true that lawsuits involve to have an impact over time because cities get tired of paying out the settlements for wrongful arrest, wrongful beatings, wrongful shootings, et cetera. And new york city is a good example of that because when they shifted to smart policing, fixing broken windows, et cetera, they have found over time that not only do they pay out a lot less in wrongful lawsuits, but also the crime rate has gone down and the homicide rate has gone down in newark and l. A. The lower homicide rates in chicago now because of these differences house but i suspect the trust issues the caller was talking about also brought up in the Kerner Commission report which we been talking about. Guest yes, it was. In fact, i was disappointed that it wasnt more address. We found a laundry list in the Commission Report of remedies that virtually match johnsons war on poverty. But Police Committee relations were mentioned. Especially in surveys taken of attitudes at the time in black Community Across the country. Police brutality i dont think therthink the were brutals used, abuse by law enforcement, came out as number one among the complaints that africanamericans had in our cities, ahead of jobs, schools and housing. This is really very telling. Its still today. Thats what i say never underestimate the impact of allegations of Police Brutality in africanamerican can reduce. Host brian is calling from lakeland, florida, on online for republicans. Good morning. Caller good morning. The Commission Report youre talking about was done to you said it was finished in februa february 1968. My point i just cut it to be a point or a question, is that why after all this stuff in ferguson ive switched to different channels, ive watched cnn, msnbc, fox, the whole spectrum because i feel its fair to listen to everybodys opinion. One thing ive noticed is that most of the older africanamericans, men and women that i hear speaking and talking, the same with this Commission Report, everything is about the past. And i just dont know as americans than we could ever move forward in a way that i think we can as a nation if we keep letting the past creep up, injecting the things that are happening now. I was born in the late 60s myself. Things are obvious it a lot different when i grew up in the 70s than they are now be at i keep hearing about the 60s and watts riots and this and that and everything else. Why cant we just move forward, move past all of that and move forward as a nation holding hands, being together instead of keep going backwards, keep going backwards. I was always taught that you cant move forward if youre always looking backward. Guest well, yeah. We baby boomers are convinced that the 60s are the most important decade that ever occurred so you have to listen to us talk about. Seriously, youre right. We do need to look forward and have always taught myself just in time when it remember the lessons from the past. Thats why ive been disappointed in ferguson that the local authorities, i like cops, some of his friends, and i was disappointed the local authorities didnt he do any of lessons in the 60s about how police are to do with the committee or the press and thats what this one local, very local episode has become this big national blowup. Host this headline from the Washington Post this week, if you agreed and we keep pledging to study the cost of riots like fergusons, and we keep ignoring the lessons. Guest thats right. That is what happened with lbj and its still too. Its probably because we dont want to have a National Conversation on race to the bill clinton announcement, its a block. Eric holder called for one. He got called a racist. I get called a racist from one interNational Conversation. Host what does that mean . Guest lets be honest, like Juan Williams book, he said, a book called muslims because talk about race is muzzled in our society. Its like sex, dont talk about it in front of the children. But the fact is these blowups, these racial eruptions like ferguson is how we have our natural conversations and attention. As a columnist am working on my third column now. This is not what happened after fallujah. This country really wants to have it on this talk about race but conservatives will tie your i cant talk on is about race without being called a racist. Thats a problem in itself the us talk about will we cant talk about race but its on after we get a Trayvon Martin or a ferguson that we do much talking. Host lidia is up next a maryland on the line for democrats. Good morning. Caller good morning, mr. Page. I have followed your career for years. I agree with you on most things. Guest well, thats better than my wife, but please go on. Caller black leaders, talk about the president should be saying about race. If we have been able to solve the racial from this country, 300 years after the civil war, what do you think the president can do in five and a half years . Guest thats a good question. Caller but what i do fault the president , we do need to have a Marshall Plan. Black communities across this country to create jobs, to tear down the boarded up apartment buildings and to rehab houses that are worth rehabbing. This will give blacks, young people jobs as long as theres no jobs in the black community, these kids to stand around, walk around all day. Daisy of the people with jobs and with money and with cars. All the things that they aspire to have. As for ferguson, they have fergusons all over this country. Right here in Baltimore City in maryland where i live. Its a small town communities, policemen get on the police force when they cant find a job anywhere else. These bona fide wannabes, they protect and serve the White Community and the black unity, all they do is harass black young men. My sons when they were growing up, you cant stand on the corner and talk to your friends. You dont have swimming pools and recreation centers, places to go. He told me to shut up and get in my house. Host i will Clarence Page comment. Hostcomment. Guest theres a lot there. For one thing she sounds like the Kerner Commission report interesting enough about the Marshall Plan. Whitney young and the National Urban league for decades call for a Marshall Plan for americas cities to be developed these communities. For the last couple of decades urban league just stopped calling. I dont expect barack obama to get anywhere if you were to propose it to this congress. So washington is just not in the mood to want to help inner cities in that way. Theres no question that went to do with the underlying causes of these racial eruptions, if you will, and as i mentioned earlier its not limited to black community. Theres other communities as well. And recent stories talk about white poverty which is one the war of poverty begin and appalachia. Suddenly after watts, it took on a black face an immediate and a still larger has the face but white poor in this country outnumber black poor in this country. Host maryland, michael is what on the line for republicans. Good morning. Caller good morning, clarence. Appreciate update to talk to you. Im [inaudible] im one of those big bad tea party guys. But i hope you dont hate me for being that. But anyway, you know guest i love everybody. I just want you to know that. Caller i was raised by a white liberal mom, but ive seen the light so to speak. Anyway, i see obama as a radical guide raised by a white mother, white sole mother and community, with dark skin. Thats what i see. I also see liberals, you know, they can only be judged by their intense and not the results. Give you an example, johnsons Great Society, they paid women who have babies whose fathers left the home. [inaudible] thats the problem right there. I appreciate your response is not a plan that Newt Gingrich and bill clinton pushed her in 96. Im sorry, are you still there . Host are you still there michael . Caller yes. Guest how did you like the welfare reform bill that bill clinton and Newt Gingrich pushed her in 96 . Caller i liked it but obamas taken the work requirement out of it and theres a problem there. Guest thats the problem we have to do is misinformation because obama has it taken the work requirement out of welfare. That ms. Is out there, and thats there. Its up to president obama to sell his program. Its not my job in the media to sell his programs. And i think he has undermined his own, both the aca and other programs by not pushing them hard enough. But this is what makes politics in america. I bring up again the New York Times cbs poll this past week, looking at black and white attitudes. I would say about twothirds of the white respondents sounded like the collar did just now about in terms of the war on poverty is a failure and blah, blah, blah, law. While about twothirds of the blacks feel the other way. Thats a big divide with that in this country which is just perception and perception of police is some of the biggest divides of all. Host the image for a Great Society. Well be talking about an ongoing series thats been happening this week in our next segment of the washington journal but we have time for a few more calls. And on and west port massachusetts. Good morning. Caller good morning to you. Thank you for having such a wonderful discussion at a very serious time, mr. Page. Israeli, i am in my mid 60s and grew up during the age of the 60s, but also i grew up in a family that not only spoke of their history and their culture, but did it in a way that their actions showed what was important to us. And i think that really we do need to go back to be telling the truth of the history of the colonization of this country. And to we can really tell the truth about what happened and how american became the way that it is today, and people understand their own history, i bet you a very few of the irish realize that they came to be the indentured servants of the english. So theres always been a caste system, no matter what land you come from. Theres always been the underclass, the people that were made to do all the work with no pay and no power. And that has continued since the english has walked up upon the continent of north america. Guest you know, i agree we need to look at the history of the country. The rich ethnic history of the country. Im happy to say the light great Frank Mccourt are was a friend, out of sorts and a wonderfully man. He opened my eyes. A lot of unamerican irish history. One thing that struck me as you mentioned in the harbor in new orleans, they would send irish workers up to unload the time because often, or to load the cotton because sometimes they would be explosions with the cotton fibers in the air and people would die. Slaves cost money. You could buy an irishman for pennies a day and so that is why they sent the irishman and to do this. It says so much about the dynamism of class in this country and ethnicity. And that continues today. I think we americans rather than try to pretend were all the same blah, blah, blah. Know, lets talk about the richness of our diversity. Its a strength but a strength with a fault line. Its a strength that has weaknesses in it. If we play to those weaknesses we will break apart. But if we play to our strengths we will prosper. Host tennessee on our line for republicans. Good morning. Caller good morning and thanks for taking my call. I live in the city of detroit when they had the rights. There was of course [inaudible] the problem was the riots [inaudible] eluded a lot of businesses. At the time the city was divided, 52 white and 48 black. And things escalated. At the time it just escalated. It got to the place where businesses like, for example, [inaudible] could not buy them within the city of detroit. If you found somebody where you could actually buy your groceries, almost to have times of what it is. Ferguson will suffer some of the same economic, you know, economic functions because of the. Host some of the images were shown from detroit came from 1967 but i will not respond. Guest detroit is like a second city to me. Ive summoned relatives all over time and i was in detroit days after the right. The call is largely correct that the negative impact of those riots. Its also true those riots again were caused by complaints over police action. It was contrary to the label race riots, blind date, one of after hours bar for working class whites and blacks would get together like at 4 00 and when. Police came and rated. It grew into a mob scene that turned into a riot, et cetera. Its a fact of life up there, that detroit was, well, suffered as a result of that but it was something that was the result of problems that had been brewing for a long time. I just came back from detroit recently and may go through a second rebound now, but ferguson does show some of the same signs but ferguson is right next to st. Louis, let us remember. So theyre not as isolated as detroit is so huge, severus is the and rhode island and manhattan, still have land left over. Detroit is the city wa that was built for a present economy back to world war ii. But in any case that carried that were talking about back in the 60s thats saved our concept of city today as we know them. I think that this Younger Generation is coming along now, like detroit, look at d. C. Here in the mid 1970s to it was chocolate city. And now chocolate city, vanilla suburbs according to those times. But now its with city council, majority white. We are seeing revival of neighborhood chair, and cant find places for poor folks to. Host one more call. William is waiting in virginia online for independents. Good morning. Caller good morning. Two quick questions. First of all these key party [inaudible] and what do you think the amount of hate would be because his father was white . And lastly did the police supposed to prevent murders and not commit murders and assaults. Host say that part of your question again . I couldnt video. Caller how many of the members no [inaudible] see, we were perpetrated here, divide and rule. I would just like to know [inaudible] guest well, i cant say that obama would have all these haters if he had a white father. On the other hand, would have been as impressive 10 years ago at the Democratic Convention in 2004 in boston if he had been just another white democratic speaker . He wouldve sounded like a slightly more eloquent john edwards by dont know if he wouldve had the kind of impact that he did have. His racial background is significant. Is International Background is significant. Says a lot about him and about us, americans. Host Clarence Page is it comes with the Chicago Tribune. His 30th anniversary of collection of columns is released next month. We appreciate you coming by. Guest i appreciate you having me. Thank you. More live events later today. Heres a look at some of our Primetime Program tonight across the cspan networks. Here are some of the highlights for this weekend. Tonight on cspan in primetime. We have more now from a weeklong examination of how lbjs Great Society has impacted present a policy. Today we focus on the 19 cities seven National Commission on product safety which led to the creation of an independent federal regulatory agency, the Consumer Product Safety Commission. This segment is just over half an hour. Host today we wrap up our weeklong series on president Lyndon Johnson, decision for socalled Great Society. Today were discussing the 1967 commission on product safety. Its commission from which todays Consumer Product Safety Commission was born and talk about it, robert adler joins us. One of the commissioners with the commission. Want to start with president johnsons words from november 201967 talk about his proposed National Commission on product safety. He said technology is brought us Many Blessings in this country but many of them are boobytrapped. For too many of them, causes great tragic and present great hazards in the 20th century. This adds up the thing were going to densely too long. We have come here to try to accentuate and stress were going to put safety first. Can you talk about the role of product safety pre1967 when the commission was announced . Guest yes, and its a fascinating piece of history. It really goes back to john kennedy and the new frontier. In march 1962 he sent a special message to congress in which he first spelled out for consumer rights. The right to be informed, the right to choose, the right to be heard and the right for safety. That was a theme that was picked up and really expanded during the mid 60s to the mid 70s. We often call that the consumer decade. Just think of the safety legislation was passed during that period. You can go to 1966 when the national Highway Traffic Safety Administration was sent out. 1967 the National Transportation safety board. 1970 Environmental Protection agency and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and then finally in 1972 the Consumer Product safety act was passed. All of those had as a theme safety. Safety became the watchword of the day. Host what was it is commission charged with doing when it was created . Guest it was charge to look into for aspects really. First was federal legislation which they felt was piecemeal and random intermittent. Also there to look at the Product Liability system to see whether that effectively protected the public. They also wanted the commission to look at industry selfregulation and they wanted to see what state and local laws applied and how effective they were and protecting the public. And that was the mandate. Host state and local laws and other protecting the public, also the subject of that message to congress that you noted earlier, figure 16, 1967 to go Lyndon Johnson words again, he said it is host so spicalas inchar so who specifically was in charge . Wasnt mostly a state effort in 1967 when it comes to product safety transfer in those days yes. There was some federal legislation but it was fairly small. There was, for example, in 1956 a piece of legislation that i still think is the best safety standard ever promulgated on refrigerator doors. And then not until 1953 did we get, excuse me, 1960, did we get more legislation addressing consumer hazards. So that state and local legislation was not very effective and the federal legislation was just not comprehensive enough. We have a mandate over roughly 15,000 product categories that Congress Passed legislation only did with a very small number of those. Host robert adler, Commission Commission with the Consumer Product Safety Commission as we talk about lbjs vision for a Great Society. We set the commission in 1967, was the goal always to create the independent agency that youre a commission for . Guest yes. Ive been told they could get congress to enact legislation so they did what is often done in washington. You set up the commission, stacked with people you know what reach a preordained conclusion, and a certainty that in the commission very, very strongly recommended the establishment of an independent commission. Host we are asking our viewers to call in during this session. We would love you your stores, interactions with the cpsc, products are regulated by Consumer Product Safety Commission. You mentioned the 15,000 products that todays consumer park City Commission covers. Ive seen and read and some your test with a congress that what isnt covered is guns, boats, cars, planes, drugs and food. Why were some things included and white of the things not included . Guest theres some interesting stories about that. First, you dont address stuff thats already regulated under federal legislation. Back in 1974 we were petitioned to exercise jurisdiction over Tobacco Products. Congress didnt want us to a jurisdiction over Tobacco Products but there was a loophole in the law that they pointed and they said we think you have jurisdiction over Tobacco Products. The court said we did have jurisdiction over Tobacco Products. Fastforward another six weeks and we were petitioned by a group to band not guns but to ban bullets. We had always exercised jurisdiction over bullets under a piece of legislation under the federal Hazardous Substances act. If you can imagine this fledgling agency in the space of a couple of months until it has jurisdiction over Tobacco Products and over bullets, two of the most controversial products you could imagine, the fasting thing about that was if you think congress can be deadlocked, they were deadlocked again. Several weeks later they enacted legislation, to Tobacco Products and bullets jurisdiction from us conclusively. Host and guns as well. Guest weve never had have jurisdiction over guns. They made that clear. Host was that clear in 67 . Guest it was. And we are a very small agency and i think for a lot of us the controversy surrounding guns is really so much of a distraction that if youre going to give jurisdiction to an agency, you probably would want to give it to an agency that is bigger and has more staff than we do. We are a very, very small agency. Host 15,000 products that the cpsc is in charge of raping the product 84. Its the budget . How many people does it take . Guest we are a very small agency. We have a budget of about 118 million, and i want to put that in context. I was looking at fdas budget i noticed that attitude step in that year, about three years ago they added more fuel staff than we have staff. Fda probably spends half again on red what our total budget is be we are a very small agency. We are staffed with extremely confident technical staff, and we do as good a job as we can with limited resources and actually think weve done quite an excellent job over the. Host to talk about agencies resources. Here is a chart showing the budget baseline for the commission over the years in 2014. The budget 118 million for how many people traffic about 530 staff at the moment. I would point out when the agency was first set up with almost 1000 staff. If you look at the precipitous drop you see in particular from 19801982, congress came in and were unhappy with regulation in general. There was a deregulatory movement and we probably more than any other agency lost staff and funding between 8082 with about a 33 drop in staff and about a 25 drop in our funding. We have struggled over the years to come back to parity but in terms of staff can we are still roughly half the amount of staff today than we had back when the agency was first set up. Host what was the concern . Wasnt the cpsc was keeping products coming from market or keeping businesses from growing . Guest well, it was a broad deregulatory movement. It wasnt limited to the cpsc. Tha setback for us was where the first agency whose reauthorization was up at the height of the deregulatory fee for, and so all of the deregulatory forces concentrated on us. The concern was limiting choice, limiting freedom, driving prices up. It was big concern about inflation at the time, and all of those were factors that people took into account when theyre pointing to regulatory agencies. We werent the only agency under attack. We just happened to be, face back on posting some members today still concerned about those issues what comes to regulation. What have been some of the interactions you have had as you testified about the cpscs budget . Guest those are concerns that we at the Commission Share as well. Our mandate doesnt say get rid of all risks at whatever cost. It says get rid of unreasonable risks. Part of the calculation for an unreasonable risk is, can we reduce it at a reasonable price without interfering with its utility or its availability. So these are concerns that we should with members of congress. Theres a spectrum of views on the hill about the benefit of regulation and about the wisdom of a Consumer Product Safety Commission. I think if you were to look at statistics of products we have been involved in, i think you would find that the costbenefit ratio of our actions has been very, very stable over the years. Host how does the general public interact with the cpsc on a daily basis so they may or may not know transferred a variety of ways a day. We have a hotline people can call in with complaints. Submitted to us. Beginning in march 2011, we established a database where people who have incidents of harm or potential harm can complaintsents or either through the phone or by writing letters or three ma through email. Saferproducts. Gov. They can access the database to see if the problem they have with their product has been shared with other folks. Host what is a specific example of how that has worked . Guest well, someone who has, for example, a heater in their could look toted the database and see whether that problem with their heater was idiyncraticor wheth er what do you credit or whether other servers had problems with the heater. I also note that the database is accessible to anyone into the consumer a port on a regular basis downloads all of the complaints from the database and try to put them into fashion to report to the readers what the complaints are and what the leading safety concerns are so it is accessible to anyone and the public uses it in a manner. Host what is the most impactful . Guest if you look at the product safety picture the last century its been favorable and it isnt due to the commissioner loan. A lot of it is due to better production that is taught in the Business School for 22 years so i think better production methods are known and they told enormously but i think the Consumer Product Safety Commission has played a big role in that. If you look at the 40 years weve been in business you can pick a product such as residential fires they dropped over 50 . You can look at electric fusions dropped over 70 . One of the big Success Stories is the Poison Prevention packaging act. Fetal poisonings over the years have dropped by 87 with a serious concern for everybody because they are aware they spend most of their time for the safety act since that was enacted in 1956 has been a grand total of no fatalities its been that effective. By the way, the technology to address refrigerator doors and i think most consumers would know it is magnetic strips around the door so if an infant crawls into a refrigerator they can open it from within and it turns out magnetic strips last longer so it is a safety standard and i wouldnt pretend all Safety Standards are that good. Host if youve had interactions with these products we are talking about interactions with Consumer Product Safety Commission concerns about certain products. The commissioner with the cpsc talking about the history and of the work of the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Republicans can call 202 5853881. 202 5853881. Democrats 5853880. Independence 202 5853882. We will get to your calls in just a minute that want to ask with the rise of the foreign products coming into the United States, the foreign Consumer Products how does the cps monitored those and do the Foreign Companies have to be held to the same standard as American Companies who are trying to put products in the market . Guest ive been in the 25 year gap i was there in the early years of the commission and in the early days of the commission imports were not an issue for the agency. When i came back, the vast majority of the recalls the commission undertook were with imported products and gas imported products must meet the same Safety Standards as domestic products. The commission has been trying its best to ramp up its surveillance so that we can stop products that are defective and dangerous before they get into domestic consumption and host does that include individual inspectors . Guest i wish. There are Something Like 300 ports of entry and we have a very limited staff, as i said. So weve actually asked congress for the fy 2016 budget to give us expanded resources so we can cover more ports and we stopped millions of dangerous products over the years and it is an ongoing effort. Host how do you get your arms around all of the products . Did he have to register the products . I noticed testing Domestic Companies have to go through before they bring products to the market. Guest if you are going to import a product you have to list it so they know all of the products coming into the country and we have a system that we call the system that surveys incoming products and we look to those where we either have had somebody thats brought in defective or dangerous products in the past and we target those or we target products that we know often present hazards. Very often Childrens Clothing as well after all strings and so we look at the particular drawstrings cause they can choke little kids were we look at hairdryers that dont have protection against the electrocution if they are dropped in a tub so we have inspectors that look for products that we note present hazards. Host talking about the history of the cpsc how much did the book help the agency . Guest i think it played a great role triggering the Consumer Movement. As we all know that led to the passage of the development of the national highway Safety Administration and safety was the watchword. He was very much involved in the crafting of the legislation in the Consumer Product safety act. So the whole Consumer Movement helped tremendously and that led to a lot of people called the consumer decade that lasted roughly from the days of the Great Society through the middle of the 1970s could host a call from new york on the line for independent. Good morning you are on with robert adler of the Consumer Product Safety Commission. Caller good morning. I had a sliding door put in my room and the threshold is so dangerous when i step on it it slices my foot. How can i do something . I took a loan and i complained about it to the commissioner and the contractor and i dont know where but its a dangerous door. Guest its interesting that you raised an issue with a sliding glass door because one of the first items of concern raised by the National Commission on product safety was what they called Architectural Glass because if you walk into it and it breaks it used to break into very dangerous shards and cause horrible injuries to consumers and Young Children in particular. So we have a standard that requires Architectural Glass. It doesnt sound like that is the problem. It sounds like the actual foothold of the sliding glass door is the problem and that is when it gets into a gray area. We have jurisdiction for the most parts that are movable products, something that is fixed permanently to the floor. It isnt entirely clear if we would have jurisdiction about that or not, but what i would urge you to do is to write a letter to the Consumer Product Safety Commission or go to cpsc. Gov and submit a complaint and i will see if i can have somebody follow up and investigate that. Host some statistics dating back to the beginning of the commission back to 1967 on product related injuries 125,000 injuries a year when it came to heating devices and 100,000 injuries a year on automatic clothes ringers and glass doors 40,000 injuries in 1967 and the wall sockets and extension cords 30,000 injuries that year. You have a specific interaction with clothing as i understand. Guest i was surprised to see that back in 1968 they were still selling hundreds and hundreds of thousands of washers with ringers. When i was 2yearsold a dog was bothering my brother. My mother ran out and i stuck my arm and a ringer of the washing machine and i wont show the viewers i have two very large scars on my right arm and so that is a matter of personal interest to me, but i think that we know that washers with ringers are no longer sold or at least not widely. Host the cpsc has minimal Testing Facilities and staff. Does the cpsc have the authority to mandate to the commercial entities under the failure to conform to the standards and testing protocols that they are required to follow . Guest thats an excellent question and if you look at a piece of legislation in 2008 called the Consumer Product Safety Commission act, you will see that congress was concerned about the foreign manufacturers and also domestic manufacturers and so what they said is with respect to childrens products and the reason we are so concerned about children i think its pretty obvious they are involuntary risktakers and so they cant read and heed warnings so we walk the extra mile. What congres the congress did ws something i thought was quite clever they didnt require companies that are making childrens products to submit them to the Consumer Product Safety Commission for testing and approval. They said the Commission Must credit. You must submit a produc product is covered by the rule or the regulation have it tested and then the regulation must certify that it would be safe. You must have your products tested as an independent lab and certify that it meets the rules and regulations. Can you talk about the situation specifically in 2008 the Congress Actually came together to pass a Consumer Product Safety Improvement act . It was a member of recalls in 2007 in fact they now call it the year of recalls there were millions of products recalled when they found in particular they were coming in with the levels on the Consumer Products and even large importers and manufacturers apparently had gotten fairly lax in the self policing so congress reacted to the thousands of recalls and billions of products by enacting the Consumer Product Safety Improvement act they said very stringent limits on the lead in childrens products and lead in paint and all products and the established the thirdparty testing regime that i discussed. One additional thing in honor of a young man named danny who died in a playpen that had been the subject of a recall and he suffocated in the playpen. His parents were wonderful folks to pass the legislation to expand rulemaking for childrens products and so we are mandated to write the Safety Standards for what are called durable products and we have been chugging along doing that for several years now. Host can you send somebody to jail click . Guest we have a Civil Penalty Authority and the ability to seek an injunction to prevent the distribution of defective products and we have the right to ban products. We also have a provision that most health and Safety Agencies have which is a recall provision. If we find there is a product that has a hazard we can issue an order requiring anybody in the distribution chain to recall that product and i should add theres one othethere is one ott again is shared by many regulatory agencies and that is if you are a manufacture the tailor and find that one of your products has a potentially dangerous aspect to it you are obligated to note of the potentially dangerous product and we get hundreds of reports a year. Host jonathan on the line for independent, good morning. Turn down the t on the tv and gh your question. [inaudible] we will come back to you. Turn on your tv and we will come back to you. On the twitter page i work with the cpsc on Child Resistant Packaging through my job at the epa. Please tell us how they protect the u. S. Public. This goes back to the package act of 1970 and the reason they and acted that is they didnt want to be presented with banning the product or committing it on the market even though the warnings didnt work and so the solution presented was to say lets permit an numbea numberof the products the targeted substances to be sold but lets put the packaging on them so that the children cant access them. And as i said its been tremendous from poisoning over the years theyve dropped well over 90 because of the poison packaging act. I should also mention that im old enough so i remember back in the day that if you need pliers to do it because the technology wasnt that good but the technology for the Retail Packaging is excellent and adults have almost no problem opening packages but children still do and that is the ideal approach. Host greenville mississippi good morning. Caller go ahead. Hello . [inaudible] the Foreign Countries like china host we need you to turn down your tv when you are calling with a question or comment. Who is the most atrisk population in the United States clicks you talk about protecting children. Is that the children or i know youve also testified about protecting the elderly population. Guest depending on the product a different patterns emerge but you are correct ive been very concerned about the elderly especially since i moved into that demographic. They concentrate about 13 of the population and we present about 65 of the fatalities from Consumer Products and the demographic is only growing. An interesting statistic i read is we have more people age 65 and older than they have people in canada. And as i see this demographic is only growing so it is an area that ive been particularly concerned about. When i was the acting chair i reorganized the agency to a small amount. This is only going to grow in the concern for the agency and not just our agency but others as well. Host was products specifically are more at risk . Guest the elderly suffer and this may be a reflection of the different patterns of activity if you look at gardening equipment tha committe are injured at a greater rate than if you look to see cooking equipment and unfortunately the Fire Associated with the use of cooking equipment if we would like to see the railings in those products here is an interesting point that somebody made to me for the beautiful new fancy elaborate banisters on the store ways are actually hazardous to the elderly and its the very narrow rod that is easiest to hold onto that they should be using in their homes so there is a broad array of products and one of my pet peeves in particular is the matters you shouldnt climb on a ladder that is taller than you are. They are extremely serious and quite frequent. Host on the 2012 report we showed you 67 earlier. There is 2. 8 million injuries in the United States when it comes to stairs, ramps 742,000 when it comes to beds and mattresses 603,000 we are talking Sports Equipment and basketballs 557,000 when it comes to bicycles and accessories and 466,000 injuries in america when it relates to football injuries. We are concerned about products that have new Technology Even if they are products that have been around a while but certainly the computers and computer batteries have presented issues that we never saw before and then you see as the evolution of products, for example when i was growing up rollerskates were not at all like roller blades now they are much more enjoyable to use but they bring a host of different safety problems and we are continuing to work on things like a pollste upholstered fived theres been a tremendous improvement on the characteristics but its still the single leading cause of fatalities and homes from fires and we are looking at altering vehicles into something called recreational highway vehicles which are simply atvs where you sit sidebyside and we are looking at a variety of other products that have been around for a while that we are still trying to address. One of the Product Design most concerned about is table salt about 36,000 injuries and about a tenth of those almost 4,000 or amputation and whats interesting about that theyve been around a long time but there is a new technology that is for the lack of a better phrase a technology that can actually sense a persons finger and shut the bleed off immediately so you get a mac but it wont if you take your finger and that is the type of technology that we are working with the laboratory to see if we can get that adopted by the industry. Host the commissioner with the Consumer Product Safety Commission can check out the work on line, speed levin and on twitter. We appreciate you stopping by the washington journal today
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