Thurgood marshall. This is dedicated in this courthouse where he served on the Second Circuit. We welcome our cspan audience to our proceedings as well. Our gathering is at the intersection of two initiatives which have engaged the courts of the Second Circuit the last two years. Initiatives, which i had the privilege of proposing which have taken life because of the creative and dedicated work of remarkable colleagues of the bench bar and our court staff. But first, the 125th Anniversary Commemoration of the second court of appeals chaired by Richard Wesley has several components, including scholarly values and Public Events as we take stock of our past to better understand how our work has evolved. So as to better meet the challenges of the present and the future. The second initiative, justice for all, courts and the community is a project of all the courts of the Second Circuit. A project which, through a wide range of Civic Education ongoing activities seeks to bring courts and communities closer together to promote public understanding of the courts and to help courts better understand the communities we serve. Early in the new year, we will be going live with our Civic Education website, which can be found on which youll be able to find on the court of appeals website and we invite you to explore it. Thurgood marshalls life is very much a part of both of these initiatives. As to our courts history in 1961, president john f. Kennedy appointed Thurgood Marshall as a Circuit Court judge in this court until 1965 when president lyndon b. Johnson appointed him first and solicitor general of the United States and then as an associate justice of the United StatesSupreme Court, the first africanamerican appointed to that highest court in our land in a career on the court that spanned approxima spanned 32 years. In this building, Justice Marshall occupied chambers on the 20th floor. His successor in that space, our belov beloved wilfurd who occupied that space succeeding Justice Marshall. Over the years, judge feinberg had an opportunity to move to bigger quarters as he gained in society but never level Justice Marshalls chambers. He said to me, if its good enough for Thurgood Marshall, its good enough for me. Second circuit marshall wrote 98, 12 concurrents and 12 dissents as david on our Staff Attorney Office noted in his article for the 125th anniversary collection of biographies of judges of the Second Circuit published by the cornell law review. Now, in the last few years, we have taken steps to assure that Thurgood Marshalls legacy is appropriately honored here in this courthouse. Two years ago, Pulitzer Prize winning author of the devil in the grove, and the dawn of a new age in america delivered the lecture of our court about marshalls courageous defense in 1949 of the four young black men in lake county, florida, accused of raping a white woman. In our lobby, as you know doubt observed, everyone who enters this building will see the photographs of various aspects of Justice Marshalls incredible career. In development with deep appreciation to circuit judge ralph winter and southern disstrict judge Paul Engelmayer and our testify require specific library team headed by lopez is an exhibit of the life and times of Thurgood Marshall as a civil rights leader who worked tirelessly to rid this country of racism and segregation. As the executive director of the ncaap and brown versus board of education and solicitor general and jurist on the Second Circuit and in the Supreme Court, you will be able to see the videos and hear Thurgood Marshalls voice arguing in the Supreme Court. Youll have a sense of the impact on the world with which he interacted. Moreover, students of all ages will be able to explore further the legacy of Thurgood Marshall when this spring we innauguarate on the fifth floor of this courthouse a Civic Education and youll be able to see the life of Thurgood Marshall. Thats a project which i cochair with judge victor morero of the Southern District of new york. Today, we are graced by representatives of the marshall family. His son thurgood jr. , his wife teddy, Justice Marshalls grandson patrick and with great thanks to ira feinberg, we have with us here as well an Outstanding Group policy. The executive director of the American Law Institute and former dean of the ny school of law and leading expert on environmental law. A highly regarded litigator, Sheryll Cashin, a distinguished scholar of social policy and judge Paul Engelmayer. Without further delay, i turn the proceedings over to judge wesley. Judge wesley . [ applause ] three seats left. I have to say, im a little nervous standing in the well are such a distinguished panel. Im glad i havent been a lawyer for po yea30 years. I dont know how id fair with the group up there. A bit of administrative stuff. Please turn off your cell phones. Please turn off your cell phones. If they ring, i will be very unhappy. Thank you, chief, for your kind introduction. In 2014, the Second Circuit resolved to present a series of programs during the 20162017 term to commemorate the 125th anniversary of this great court. To that end, a committee of judges, Court Personnel and lawyers was presented to plan a number of events and publications that would tell the story of the Second Circuit as reflected in its jurisprudence, its impact on the cultural and economic climate of our nation and the lives of the judges who have labored here. The names of those folks who have served on that committee are on the back of your program. Todays Panel Discussion is the fifth in a series of programs planned by the committee and executed through the hard work of the court family and its friends. In the next few months, Court Personnel will reenact famous appeals heard at the court. A distinguished scholar will deliver a First Amendment case. A panel of lawyers and judges will explore the circuits relationship with its state high Court Cousins with regard to certified question procedures and much, much more. A copy of the calendar of events was given to you and is available to you at the Registration Desk and also is available to you on our website. Todays program focuses on a man who during his time before he came to the bench played an active and vital role in the fight for equal justice for africanamericans during the 20th century. I suspect Many Americans could tell you that Thurgood Marshall was the attorney who successfully argued brown versus board of education but i fear that a few have a sense of marshall as a historic figure. And id confess that i was among them until i read richard kugers most magnificent book. Recently, gilbert king in his book mentioned by the chief, devil in the grove, gives us a sense of the america in which marshall lived with daily danger in fighting racial prejudice and injustice. Marshall, as the chief said, has a connection to this court. He served here for four years before being appointed solicitor general by Lyndon Johnson in 1965 and later the Supreme Court in 1967. A great year for me. That was the year that i graduated from high school. Makes me feel old now, to be honest with you. Following the Supreme Court appointment, he became the circuit justice for the second serk k circuit justice. Its sort of a judicial godparent for the circuit in d. C. Looking after us as the Second Circuit. It had been our intention to begin with a presentation by marshalls first clerk at the Second Circuit. Our very own judge ralph winter. Judge winter is recovering well from a recent medical procedure but regrettably is unable to be with us today. I speak i know that i speak for all of my colleagues when i say we look forward to having judge winter back with us again soon in good health. Many of us have heard his delightful stories about his time with marshall. Its clear that ralph treasured the experience. Judge winter delivered a eulogy at marshalls funeral in 1993 and a copy of that eulogy has been provided to you on a program produced by our library staff. With your indulgence, let me read to you from a several small portion of this memorable address. Marshall was appointed to the Second Circuit only on an interim basis, the method by which judicial appointments were made while congress was not in session. The judge served on an interim basis until confirmed or not confirmed. For marshall, the interim was long. Eight months on the Senate Judiciary committee and during that time he was treated as a visiting judge and had no permanent chambers in this building. Every two weeks or so he would pack up his files and move them to a vacationing judges office. Can you imagine that, having to pick up your files and move them around . I try to think about my colleagues accomplishing that. Hmm. Back to winter. In spite of the strain of serving as a judge without being confirmed, marshall carried out his responsibilities with his characteristic goodhumored perspective on life. Most famous men or women rarely live up to their press clippings as a person. Thurgood marshall, the person, lived up to and even outdid his press clippings. He was a warm, friendly, incredibly witty man, a totally loveable human being. I was his clerk in his first year as a judge on the court on which i now sit. Every morning he presided over coffee hour attended by clerks from other chambers. The atmosphere was one of earthy stories, salty language and booming laughter. He was universally kind to and loved by his clerks and in the imprint of his personality is stamped on them. Thurgood marshall was the Irresistible Force for justice, the i am moveable object against injustice and a warm and kind human being. Alas, he was mortal. Although that, believe it or not, came as a surprise. But his legacy to the nation is indestructible. As are the Cherished Memories that we have of him. Today we will hear from people who worked at the Supreme Court with Justice Marshall. Marshall had a tremendous influence on the Juris Prudence as a lawyer and as a judge on the high court. Todays discussion through todays discussion, well learn how marshalls influence on our national Juris Prudence continues today through the law clerk he trained. This will be a memorable afternoon and evening. Our panelists knew one of the great figures and leading to the discussion is Paul Engelmayer, a graduate of Harvard College and law school who worked as a reporter for the wall street journal between college and law school. Decided to get a real job, i guess. He clerked at the d. C. Circuit and following a distinguished career at the United StatesAttorneys Office in the Southern District and actually a stint at the solicitor generals office, judge engelmayer joined a firm, wilmer. It sounds like a law firm you want to spend 700 an hour on. And thats for the associate. I know. You can tell ive been off the bench for 30 years. In in 2011, judge engelmayer filled the vacancy created and senator grassley gave the judge a hard time for a few weeks but ultimately thought the better of his hold on the judges nomination. And for good reason. Judge engelmayer on july 26th, 2011, was confirmed by a vote of 980. Now, ive gone back and looked at the vote on june 12th of 2003 and my vote was 970. Judge engelmayer, i dont know how you got that extra vote. I dont know. Congratulations. Judge engelmayer, on behalf of the court, i want to thank you for helping us plan this event and for all of your assistance in conquering the endless set of challenges that we faced in making today a reality. Ladies and gentlemen, i give you the honorable paul a. Engelmayer who will introduce our distinguished panel and serve as a moderator for todays discussion. Judge engelmayer . [ applause ] thank you, judge wesley, thank you chief katzmann and i want to thank everyone who is here and in courtroom number 1703. Tonights turnout, which encompasses 650 people is a record for this 80yearold courthouse. Part of that is because we have a worldclass panel. But it also speaks, i think, to the giant to whom were paying tribute tonight. Its been 25 years since he retired and nearly 24 years since he died. But Thurgood Marshall, the lawyer, Thurgood Marshall the justice still inspires us. He was transformational. Thanks to his brilliance and courage and vision in so many areas, civil rights and civil lib b liberties, our role in 2016. Our panelists tonight have one thing in common. Each of us have had good fortune to spend a year clerking for judge marshall who was already a Living Legend by the time we got to meet him, including ralph winter who unfortunately was unable to attend tonight because of an illness. Ralph, as you heard, was his very first clerk on the Second Circuit and Sheryll Cashin clerked for him in his final year in october term 1990. In between, greg discakant and ricky revesz clerked in 1984 to 1984. Elena kagan clerked in 1987 to 1988 and i clerked the following year, 1988 to 1989. Elena, in fact, along with her coclerks trained me and my coclerks. And so i can say that i had the rare privilege, although i cant say that i had the presence to appreciate it at the time, of being clerked by one past and one future Supreme Court justice. Each was shaped by the times, by the courts changing composition and by the years docket. But certain aspects of a clerk was perennials and thats what court clerks called him at his request. He didnt want to be called justice or mr. Justice or at the most formal, judge. He in turn called us knuckleheads and other nicknames that perhaps well get to tonight. So one thing that a t. M. Clerkshipment was lots and lots of time with him. We would spend an hour across the conference table from his clerks in his private Conference Room near his cherished and the court heard argument in 170 cases which was fairly typical for his tenure and so there were lots of those hours. T. M. Would discuss the cases that had just been argued, hed make notes in his behinder with his blue pencil until he arrived at a decision about how to vote. To be presence as he talked through cases, whether landmark cases or soon to be forgotten cases was a thrill. It was literally being a witness to history. And then would come what the four of us my year called story time. T. M. Would talk about his roots in baltimore, his early career as a criminal defense attorney representing black defendants in the deep south charged with murder and rape and who were facing the Death Penalty if mob justice didnt get to them first. The civil rights cases that he brought leading up to and following brown, his years on the second serk kcircuit, on th Supreme Court, his views about law and life and politics and current events, his heroes, his villains. He was a master story teller, he was very vivid and blunt. He didnt pull any punches. As you heard, he was riotlessly funny. My year he had just turned 80. There was constant speculation about when he might retire. One day he told us he didnt plan to leave the Supreme Court until age 110. And we asked him what would cause him to leave then. His answer was this. And i quote, shot by a jealous husband. So so those post conference discussions, as much as anything, were how t. M. s clerks got to know him. Our discussion tonight, i hope, will illuminate this great man who we so admired as well as his work as a Supreme Court justice. Im going to begin in a moment by asking each of our panelists to take a moment and share with you what their year with t. M. Was like. Im then going to put some more substantive questions to the panel, a number of whom have written abou