Transcripts For CSPAN3 Mary Llewellyn McNeil Centurys Witnes

A very brief bit of. Who was wallace and why should we care about him . Wallace carroll although largely unknown, today was of the most respected and influential journalists, editors and publishers of the 20th century. A reporter. The united press in europe during, the 1930s and early 1940, carol covered of the most significant events leading to and during World War Two. Then went on to work for the u. S. Office of war information, undertook two stints as editor and later publisher of the Winston Salem journal and served as number two to james reston in the Washington Bureau of the New York Times. Again more details to come, but was much more than a globetrotting journalist giving us eyewitness accounts of events, or even just your run of the mill editor. As alan mary will tell us, carol was a mentor, an example to a generation of journalists who even today still and try to follow his tenants of good journalism. These an absolute commitment, accuracy and the truth. Attention to detail, total independence and as David Freidman recently in his wall street journal review of book while the world of journalism is different today, many working journalists, as well as all of who cherish and read the news, would do well to read this book. Centurys witness at long last shines a light on Wallace Carrolls remarkable life. Were looking forward to learning more about both the man and centurys witness tonight. Now a little bit more about our speakers. Al hunt, as mentioned, writes a weekly column for the hill and cohosts the 2022 politic war room podcast with james carville. Previously, he was a Bloomberg Opinion New York Times columnist covering politics and Public Policy and the executive washington editor of bloomberg news. Before joining bloomberg hunt, four decades at the wall street as a reporter and bureau chief and executive washington editor and wrote the weekly column politics and people. Mr. Hunt, new Wallace Carroll and credits him with getting him to take his first job at the wall street journal. Something that we will learn more about. Mary mcneil, a student of Wallace Carrolls at Wake Forest University city, is a former editor and writer for. Congressional quarterly and the primary of environment and health. Reagans year and the nuclear age. She has worked as an editor at the Smithsonian Institute and national of sciences and as a journalist at the winstonsalem journal. During a 28 year career at the world bank, she two global publications and led efforts on civil society, strengthening Community Driven development and government accountability. This is her first full length biography. If you could all please join me welcoming al hunt and mary mcneill. Thank you very much. You guys, you know, everybody hear me back there. Im going to turn this over to the in just a minute. But i first want to say that i revered. Mr. Carroll. I can never call him. Wallace or why . Carroll he always is. Carroll. And its so nice to have his daughter here and his granddaughter here today because. There is no one that deserves recognition as much as as he does mary. And youve done a fabulous job. But let me start by asking you, you got to wait for us. In 1978, you were a mere child. I know. And you had a wonderful career in journalism. Many years at the world bank. Why . In thousand 17 or 18, you decided to do a book on your constitutional law professor. Thats question. Well, you know, if youre very lucky when, youre young of a certain age, you run into people that stay you and that you look at. And for some reason, you want to and you just respect. And when i was at wake forest, you know, i was 20 years old and i took course on the First Amendment from Wallace Carroll. And there was something about then that you wanted to do well for, this person. He didnt talk about he wasnt loquacious. He wasnt, you know, didnt tell you everything hed done in his life. But you just knew. And so he stayed. Me and i went in to do work in journalism and left journalism for a while, work at the world bank, and then about five and a half years ago, i was in london. And i came across a called citizens of london by lynne olson, which is a wonderful book. Its about three americans who were in london right before the war, basically trying to convince us to come in to the war. And i was reading the book. And Wallace Carrolls name kept popping up all over the place. And i thought, is this my old professor . What was he doing in london . I had no idea. Finds out he was the United Press Bureau chief in london beginning in 1939. I was charge of all the coverage of the coming war. And i thought, whoa, knew because mr. Carroll never talked about the things he had done. And so i started to research this and it was like unappealing onion. The more i looked into this life, the more interesting, fascinating it became. It was a Real Adventure story in terms of his work as a foreign correspondent. He went to europe in 1929 as a 22 year old covered riots. London and paris went to cover the league of nations, saw the whole rise of fascism, then was made the age of 33. The chief of united press in london covered, the blitz, the battle of britain. Then he was of the first correspondents to go into soviet union when the nazis invaded in 1941, and after going to the front and writing about that and seeing that on his way to get out the soviet union. He landed in pearl about four days after the invasion. The or the bombing. So this was like, you know, this was everywhere. And that was sort of just the beginning of the story. So that in answer to your question, why i got intrigued why i wanted to write about him in the first place and then why i the more i learned about him, the more i thought it was a great a great story to tell. It is. Then lets stay with that European Experience the london blitz, the spanish the spanish war where he would take rickety planes and that great great peril and he very strongly believed that the that the west had to counter hitler. He understood the well before some did and was frustrated by by his country back then. Is that fair to say, mary. I think it is, because in the 1930s he went to geneva in, 1934, and was the diplomatic reporter for united press. And so he witnessed all the deliberation surrounding the rise of hitler and mussolini in the league of nations. And theres some interested parts of the book where he talks about and including one instance where he listened to hali, who was the emperor of ethiopia, and as you recall, the italian the italians invaded ethiopia, and Haile Selassie came in and a speech where he ill never forget this quote, he said that mussolinis son had described the bombing of ethiopians as a wonderful thing, because as the bombs fell down, people exploded like red flames and and i remember reading that and thinking, oh, my god. So he knew all this was going on, but was frustrated because as he would write these stories to the United States, there was very little interest at that time what was going on in europe and very little understanding of the dangers that that were arising the continent. So this all fit his belief that, you know, hitler really was something that we should be paying to and fight against. And then he went to the soviet union in 1940. Was it or 40, 40, i guess, i also should before i forget it was, it was in geneva. That he met his wife, who was a full time partner. To put it mildly. Right. I mean, your mother was as formidable as your father, right. And one of the things about the book and well get back to historical is really a love story. I had written the book and i knew about peggy carol. She a very welleducated, articulate, smart, welltraveled father, had been the head of the rockefeller and was one of the founders of the first yellow vaccine. Yellow fever vaccine. She had grown up living all over the world, traveled in the east went to vassar was an economics major. And when they met, they a perfect pair because intellects matched but she was very outgoing very effervescent he tended to be much more introverted and shy, but together they were just a formidable couple and they were married for 67. The 63 years. But what i wanted to say about the book is i had almost finished the book and i a note from pat and said we found letters that my mother wrote to her mother in the United States during the blitz also following the and into North Carolina. And do you want this box of letters. And i mean, you know, i was like, yeah, well, let me think about it. So yeah. And so this box arrived on my door and husband can attest to this. Im reading these letters and i kept saying, oh my god, oh my god. Because were so vivid and brilliant into themselves. Know because she wrote almost every day and. It was really something. And so i was able to weave this into the story and it not only contained impressions, but it talked about how she felt about him. There were letters about how he felt her when he was going to the spanish civil war. He wrote a letter to saying that leaving you was the hardest ive ever had to do in my life. They had been married for three months and she said, but you got to go. Okay. So a little of a side, but its really a story of both Wallace Carroll. And peggy carol. I we have so much to cover and so little time to do it but just one more find the soviet union. He was there, you know, right. Right before the germans invaded. And he that that you can describe either his conversation with stalin or that incredible harrowing trip he took back to meet his wife and new daughter in new york, which is about 116 days or well, two and a half months. Yeah. Well, i exaggerated a little bit, but but i mean, and it was and it was a rickety plane, a desert where you had to pay off the camel driver. Right. Yeah. You know, and then fly in across the pacific and land at pearl harbor. So, i mean, he literally used everything he had in terms of his ability to get across the asian continent a time when that was a rough thing to do and he did travel by train by rickety plane at one point they flew 100 detours or yards the right and then actually took a taxi, the desert and you know, the nomads. And he managed to get out of that. And then he really did. It was a its an adventure tale. I mean, i really think if you when you look at the map, you just get scared. Cant believe. And he was he was in negotiating with to get visas you know and at one point he pretended he was a high level british Civil Servant and he went in and made up a name for himself. And he said, this is who i am and i need visa. And the guy said, oh okay. And, you know, so it was a really a use of his of his all his all skills. And its a great its a great story why i have story is that later in his life, he gave a series of lectures to the winstonsalem community where he lived. And he told these stories. And Margaret Carol wallis, his oldest daughter, kept these tapes and she sent them to me. And was able to listen to them and transcribe them. And he was a wonderful storyteller and all the details of this were i was able to capture and get in the book. Im to skip over the role. He working with the government and government during the war. Its a fascinating chapter. We we dont have as much time, but he comes back after the war and gordon gray was secretary of the army then or was about to be. So he was secretary. And he owned the winstonsalem journal. And through another high level contact, he was introduced to mr. Carol. Its always going to be mr. Carol to me and and offered him job in sale right right and and this was in 1949 and was carol had the last couple of years writing a book about his time in the soviet union and basically you know needed a job he had three Young Children and this this gentleman who was an heir to the reynolds fortune but owned a paper invited him come down with peggy to winstonsalem to see if you know he would take this job. And they decided that it would be good place to raise their children and. I think after all, theyd been through in europe and london, it was a peaceful, nice place to be, frankly. And so he went to work for the winstonsalem journal and. Im going to combine the two stints you had there. Well talk a little bit about the inbetween stint was at the New York Times, but both 49 to 55, i think, and then 63 to 77, but he really he made it the best newspaper in North Carolina. He hired some people who went on to great do great things like tom tom wicker and tom wicker and he he did not he did not kowtow to the establishment. I think thats a fair assessment. He was certainly not a bomb thrower, whether it was tobacco or in or other issues or the environment. So, talk about some of the courage displayed. Right. Well, i think of the reasons he liked the winstonsalem that gordon gray, who owned the paper, really saw the paper as a public service. And he was willing to let carol run the paper basically, and not. And i think that independence was something that he really wanted and appreciated and. So he make the winstonsalem journal wonderful paper i was in researching, would go back and look at the early and its amazing the coverage of that paper and the investigative reporting and everything which is unfortunately nowadays is hard to find if you can find it at the local level. But when he went back editor and publisher in 1963, it was right at the cusp of the demise of tobacco industry. If you will remember. The Surgeon Generals report came saying that, you know, tobacco was bad for your health. And here he is in winstonsalem, a town that is run by the tobacco and and lots people hired by r. J. Reynolds but he didnt hold back. He wrote all about the Surgeon Generals report. He put it out there that it was dangerous. And he took a lot of heat for that. But he said i feel the people in this town need to know. They need to know of these dangers and so on. And so forth. And the similarly with other issues in the sixties that came up. Desegregation of schools. I mean it was pretty clear that both he and peggy were very much in favor of the desegregation of schools theres in the book theres things where i said that they had previously about the and particularly peggy you know how distressing was the segregation in carolina at the time and he he instead though of being a flame thrower he managed the coverage of that to push but to not inflame more. There were riots in winstonsalem and he would go down to the office and and spend the night to make sure things, didnt get out of control and was in very careful coverage. You know careful of the coverage, but he pushed the agenda. You know, he he was able because he was so respected to push the desegregation agenda forward. You know issue after issue during that time you say he he he did that and had a major influence on the town but south too i mean he was the leading newspaper person in the south at the time. Well, i was in North Carolina the early sixties at college. And i think North Carolina had his problems and they had they had riots there, demonstrations. But it it fared in those Turbulent Times. It did in those Turbulent Times than any other southern state. Certainly much better than the neighboring states of virginia, South Carolina and a lot of it, i think, had some of it had to do with karen. Terry sanford was a great governor. He a big, big difference down there. But a lot of it had to do with newspapers. There were a number of other good newspapers in North Carolina. But i think, you know, mr. Cowles, winstonsalem journal was probably the best. And they i think they, had a huge influence. Mary im going to come back to one or two things in winstonsalem, but he he worked for eight years as the New York Times Deputy Bureau chief, although i think can call him Scottie Reston. Now, can i ask who i, i knew fairly well, or i know least . And he told me one time that hed never known a newspaperman that had better judgment than molly carroll, and thats why he trusted him for. And david shribman, if you havent read that wall street journal review, you really ought to. David shribman went to work for the New York Times in 1981. That was 18 years after mr. Carroll had left. And you sit around the office, they would still ask questions when it was a thorny, what would wally do . I mean, it was just the huge impact he had. But he in 1968, one of the really landmark influential editorials, the winstonsalem journal front page, where artists on the vietnam war. Now, mr. Carroll was a cold warrior. He was, you know, grew up with the dean. And that cold war, the George Kennans and the vietnam war. Back then. For those of you who werent around it, did split the country and the democrats were split, too. Johnson was the president and the cold war air scoop jackson. The others were, you know, bombing back to the stone age. And he wrote brilliant editorial that came at it not from the left, but basically argued that it was done in american interest. Can describe it in a minute but whats so influential about it . His good friend dean showed it to Lyndon Johnson. And two weeks later, lyndon announced he was not going to run reelection. He was going to try to focus on ending that war. So so tell and tell us a little bit more about that extraordinary editor. Well, i think that its true. I think it was probably the thing he was most for, because when he wrote the editorial 1968, it not only appeared the winstonsalem journal,