Three or four months ago maybe we should get some people together. And i thought that sounds like a good idea. I started trying to find people. It was difficult. Then stuff started happening in dc that was vaguely reminiscent to some of the things we worked on. And all of a sudden everybody seemed to want to show up. This is just fantastic. On a personal level. Raise your hand if you were on the the committee staff. This is pretty amazing. So, we said goodbye to each other 43, 44 years ago. And when i got ready to do this i called jim hamilton who was my boss back then. I say jim, i mean it ill have it in tomorrow. He says gordon you better have it in tomorrow. So it was just like no time has passed for a lot of us. The other thing i was struck with, when we broke up. I dont know how many remember this. Sam dash had a final meeting and we were all stuffed into his office. And he said this has been the most important thing thats happened in my life and im sure it will ever happen in my life. And will happen in yours. Im thinking well im like 21, 22 years old i hope theres something that happens. But now looking back, it becomes this thing becomes very real. One of the ways i was trying to think about it is then the truth was a solid. It was something you worked on, you could count on you could you could find it. In the intervening years every couple years it became more and more relative. And now its like water or air. And i this its very important that were back in this room together and think about what happened during that period of time. I dont know how many of you remember that i took pictures and i had a camera around my neck a lot. And so this is one you just wont see when a news photographer shows up of senator irvin. And then an in honor of our friends don and howard and fred. I saw that picture. These republicans they posed better than the democrats. I have to tell you, i have been through all the pictures. I realize that 43 years ago i put away 600 negatives and in sleeves and i started desperately looking for that box. I have now done it. We have a nice reservoir of photographs going up. And we also, lil and i, the clyde group, which is a pr agency that has given us wonderful pro bono help. We have a wonderful web site called watergate community. Com because there isnt a good historical reference. We expect after today were going to continue to be a voice. And im happy everybody could be here. Leslie, im thrilled you could do this. I am too. These people probably dont need a lot of introduction. Start with governor weicker. So any of us on the committee and those watching television remember weicker was a very demure person, didnt have much to say. So lowell was the fire brand in many ways. And went on to have every office you can hold in connecticut including the governorship. And were just really happy you can be here today. Rufus in many ways is the unsung hero of the Watergate Committee. Because its great to put a bunch of people on a dais and have tv cameras show up. But you cant imagine what somebody would have to do to make all of that happen inside of the senate. And to be able to negotiate to put us all in on auditorium. I dont know how you did it. In addition to being deputy chief counsel, he had to clear all these obstacles. And then im assuming he made a few trips between different senators offices on the committee. Yeah. Travel budget for that. Anyway, so rufus went on and has been just instrumental in politics in North Carolina, secretary of state, attorney general. Couple runs for the governorship. One was enough. One was enough. Okay. It was a bad year, gordon. All right. Dave dorsen was a prosecutor in new york. And found himself on the Watergate Committee. And dave and jim hamilton and terry, who is not with us today, were the three people that ran the three investigative groups in on the Watergate Committee. And david dealt with Campaign Finance, and issues around that. And jim with watergate break in and terry with dirty tricks and other things that reached into the investigative realm. That we probably still dont know about. David, each person here has had some experience thats gone forward. David actually worked on a lawsuit for john dean against gordon liddy and his author, a liable sort of thing. Got to know john dean well. Hes written a number of books now. Just finished one on antonin scalia. And is an active writer and still quite a bit at work. Jim hamilton has had an active law practice. Represented senator who was one of the committee members. And then has gone on and in addition to his legal work, vetted almost every Vice President ial candidate going back a number of years and other folks. So people who are very active out of watergate. And with that, lesley stahl i think you have a good idea about. Obviously 60 minutes. Leslie also was is this your first, second, third job when you got to cbs . Second. So im going to let her start off and well go from here. Thank you, everybody. [ applause ] gordon. When were all done were going to give a special thanks to gordon for pulling this together. Definitely. But before we get into reminiscences, can we do a round in which each one of you, in your own words, describe watergate and its significance . How would you explain it . Anybody want ill start. Its the first time in anybodys memory that somebody challenged the president of the United States. Up until Richard Nixon, the position was and nobody questions the president. After watergate, everybody felt they could go ahead and question a president of the United States. In other words we established the fact the president is not above the law. And up until that point that wasnt the case. Well the reason i want to tell gordon if he thinks someone else was a best pose r for pictures, hes wrong. I think the significance of watergate was that you showed between two people, irvin and baker. That you can get together and make something happen. It hasnt happened since that time. I have gone back and looked at every single scandal. Not a one has done what watergate did. We put that together in two months. Which people that the aged very nicely by the way. I think it shows that we dont have to have in political discourse and thats the thing i take home every night. I think youre right. Well ill take off of where they left off and say this was an opportunity for the American People to see the government in action at its best. I think sam dash, senator irvin and baker put together a vivid demonstration, a story, that taught the American People what was going on in a way that everyone can understand and could evaluate for himself or herself what was wrong with the nixon administration, and how the government could go about correcting it. The government not an outside force. I think watergate was significant for a number of reasons. First of all it dealt with the very fabric of what we are as a nation. Our values and distaste for corruption. Secondly i think it was successful because sam dash knew how to tell a story. He started the low level and built it up to. And doing the summer of 1973, watergate was the best soap opera on television. And of course, the other reason that watergate was successful is that we found the white house tapes. Were going to get around to the tapes. Thats huge. We all know that. The magnitude of the wrong doing was impressive because there were breakins, the white house tried to get to the criminal justice system, tried to get the fbi to burn documents and involve the secret service. You wrote the white house was corrupt through and through. It was that bad. It was a swamp. Well i think it was a swamp. Of course we know that lodged in the Nixon White House were the plumbers. Who attempted all types of misdeeds including for example the breakin of the psychiatrists office. But there were other plans for the Brookings Institute and places like that. And of course they tried to unsuccessfully to break into watergate before the breakin that actually got them caught. But i think the tapes have revealed that many people in the white house, hal dechlt rman, dean, halston, they were all in on the coverup. And thats quite amazing as we look back. Senator weicker you were telling me about patrick gray at the fbi. Because the white house tried to get the fbi to come into the coverup. Yeah. Well, patrick was the acting director. And the nixon people tried to take him over to do their dirty work. And this was an especially poignant scenario. Since here was a man who was a submarine commander in the u. S. Navy. And had gone on one Dangerous Mission after another and excelled and was a hero. He comes back to his country, serves in a political position, and hes used. I managed to have pratt tell his story to the press. Because i wanted him to get out in front of the news that was to follow and fortunately number one he did that, and fortunately number two he did not go ahead sdp suffer a prison sentence as many of the other conspirators did. You told me that senator irvin was the absolute perfect person to run the this committee. Because of his mind, because of his character, and because you didnt say this but because of his eyebrows. I didnt say that. Why do you say he was the perfect person. I think he was senator baker said that no one knows that senator irvin was a graduate of harvard law school. And irvin said, yes, nobody knows that. And he came across as very folksy but with a razor sharp mind. He was conservative, he was the states rights in the 60s and early 70s. So while a disadvantage to many people, it exhibited him as a middle of the road democrat or american, who would be acceptable who whose account would be acceptable and accepted by the people of the united by the people of the United States, unlike somebody who would have come across as a partisan liberal antinixon person. Senator irvin embodied the important tradition, an ecumenical tradition of the em of tradition, ecumenical tradition of the United States. Rufus, you were his right hand man, senator ervin. And i know that he let his guard down with you. So tell us what he was thinking through the hearings and what kind of a man you found, because you knew him so deeply. Well, when you travel with a man for virtually ten years, i remember one time i even had to sleep in a bed with him. I said im not going to sleep with god. I put one cheek of my butt on the bed and one on the floor. I finally had to get up to go to this little bathroom to get my sleep. But the man was chosen because people could believe his word. I never saw him go back on his word. And i want to make something very plain. Theres a good book by carl hes a professor at appear latchian and he gives this dichotomy of ervin very anticivil rights and then very pro personal rights. That was all part of the man. There was no pretense there. And he did say to me one time a little bit about nixon. You know, nixon swore him in. And i had told the senator about having been invited to the white house when i was the chief counsel and staff director of the separation of powers subcommittee. Nixon invite us down there and he greeted us coming in. And then he all of a sudden got in the corner and started talking to himself. And i mentioned it to somebody coming back up from down there. Thats strange. And i said to senator ervin on a trip the next time, i said, you know, senator, he got over in the corner and was talking to himself. And senator said, i always thought he was very strange. And he from youve got to remember this, ervin had had a battle with Richard Nixon for almost five years on military spying on civilians and being an imperial presidency. So while it was not personal, senator ervin just did not trust the man. Right from the beginning. The amazing thing is that in those days really we did have a middle. We had the conservative democrats and we had the liberal republicans. And the country had a middle. Weve completely weve lost that. Its gone. It just went up in smoke. And i dont know that you can really do what you all did if there isnt a middle. Does anybody want to comment on that . Well, youve got to talk to each other in the first place. I mean, i dont think the rivalry or the partisan ship was any less when i was in the United States senate. But, and this is a big but, when the bell rang and it was the end of the day, you used to go off and have drinks together, republican and democrat, and thats where the business was done. You talked, in other words, and did the dealing and whatever have you. So by the time you came back on the floor, you had a solution. Nowadays they dont talk to each other during a session, after the session, at no time, and how can you get anything done . You cant. Right. We had parties back then, leslie. Absolutely. They stayed there. And after you stay in washington for two days at a time, you become a washington preacher, and its all what it should be in the opposite. I guess before the Senate Hearings there was judge sirica and i wonder how important you think judge sirica was in teeing up or allowing the committee to go forward. I was in the courtroom, i just want to say, because i covered that too, and he took over the questioning of the burglars, and it was stunning. I kept saying to myself, judges cant do that. He started to squeeze them to squeal on the higher ups. How important do you think sirica was in watergate . David . Well, i think he was very, very important, but im not sure that we would have been as happy applauding sirica if the shoe was on the other foot. Judge sirica abused his power plain and simply. He took over the kwelg, as leslie said. He imposed astronomical and punitive sentences. And then ultimately when he the leaders of the Nixon White House were on trial, he assigned the case to himself. Judge sirica was known as maximum john. He was not a good judge. I still dont think he was a good judge. I think what he accomplished was admirable, but i have spent many hours thinking that we paid a price for that, and we have to be careful not to let the ends justify the means. Without judge sirica its questionable whether we would have had watergate work out the way it did. But i dont think his legacy should be carved in bronze alongside of people like sam ervin. Wow. I think, leslie, that he probably would have been sense urd by the bar for some of the things today. I know you would in North Carolina ex parte conversations. I know that for a fact, and i do think, though, that he did set in motion the mccord, who i thought how can a man like that do this stuff and i think he was sort of blind hero worship. They had a stockholm syndrome about Richard Nixon. Or g gordon liddy. People with good reputations get into that fix . And rufus mentioned mccord, one thing that really got the ball rolling in watergate is mccord wrote a letter to sirica that said there had been perjury in the trial and trees in the forest are going to fall. And that got everybody interested thats because the judge squeezed him. Actually, up until this panel, i always thought i was shocked by it, but i thought he was a hero. His reputation is not what youre saying. Well we already made news, everybody. Well, no. He accomplished something and another person who deserves some miserable credit for this is g. Gordon liddy. If he had pleaded guilty we wouldnt have had watergate. He was a one man self zrukt active mechanism. He went around and announcing that he used mccord. He publicly sized the fact that walking down hallways that he did something wrong. He made blunder after blunder, and the ultimate one was going to trial, which allowed all this to come out when sirica pushed everybody. So it there are extraordinary twists and turns that have not been explored in this dimension. I think its worth remembering that the fist watergate trial was tried in the theory that the only people involved were the seven defendants. And the senate didnt believe that. Well, sirica didnt believe it either. And sirica didnt believe it. And thats why the Watergate Committee was established. Well, sirica was squeezing the burglars and then the next layer and the next layer and he kept saying, you have to tell me about the higher ups. You talked about sam dash organizing, the hearings in a way that told a story, but was the purpose the same, was the purpose to squeeze your witnesses . In other words, did you always have the president in mind and were you always pointing in that direction . No. No. I think when we started we didnt think this thing was going to go very high. Maybe John Mitchell because he had been the head of creep, the committee to reelect the president. I think quite frankly we were all a bit astoumded as the evidence started come in and particularly after we started talking to john dean about what was going on in the white house. It snowballed quickly and at loathe in my mind got to be a much bigger thing than we had amend in the beginning. So from john dean on, everything point so this was little known. In fact, i didnt know about it until about three days ago. Senator weicker lived directly across the street from john dean. Did any of you know that . He kept this a secret. So tell us about that, because i think you told me that he approached you, and this is how his testimony, the whole thing came about. Well, actually, i put the word out that i wanted to talk to john. He was represented by charlie shaf fer of maryland. And dean wasnt talking to anybody, and all of a sudden one evening when i was actually at the theater here in washington, somebody came to me and said that he wanted to talk. And so i was taken to charlie shaf fers home and there was john dean. I didnt meet him across the street even though he lived there, but i didnt know him. And at that home he told me the full story. Now, before he told that to me, he said lowell, are you sure youre not in trouble . And i said what do you mean . He said well, the Nixon Committee gave x number of dollars to various senators that were running for public office, and they gave them to each senator personally and that violated the law. And theyre going to go ahead and dump this on your head and other senators also. Well, fortunately for me, i had been campaigning in upstate connecticut, and when they made the offer of the money from the white house, i couldnt be there. And so my Campaign Manager accepted the donations, which