take a listen. speak of the july 20 for phone call was unusual because in contrast to other presenter because i've observed, it involved discussions would appear to be had with political matter. >> professor karlan, is it common for someone who gets caught to deny that their behavior is impermissible? >> almost always. >> one of the questions before us is the president's claim that he cared about the supreme courtdetermined thag credibility, we should look at a number of factors including impact historical background and whether there are departures from normal procedures, correct? >> that's correct. >> what we want to do is figure out if someone's explanation sticks with the facts, and if it doesn't the expo nation may not be true. let's explore that. lieutenant colonel vindman testified he prepared talking points on anticorruption reform on president trump's call with