the russians would like, and the ukrainians fought them off at least in some places, they bought them some some breathing room, then you are looking at more potentially of a protracted struggle. higher russian casualties. that will buck up western will, so to speak, and that'll make it possible if the west desires to bring in more defensive armament. if, in fact, the russians are more successful in neutralizing and basically decapitating the ukrainian military and neutralizing it and rolled right into kyiv whether it's an airlift operation at the airport which is ongoing right now -- there is conflict and shooting in and around the airport and that's really the hinge point here. if the russians are to settle here, you could see this being over and moscow installing a very friendly, family to moscow, regime in kyiv. >> trace: i think anyone in these meetings tomorrow, you talk about the e.u., i wonder if