Transcripts For KGO This Week With George Stephanopoulos 201

Talking about bacon. And the russian olympics on thin ice. All that ahead this sunday morning. Announcer from abc news, this week with George Stephanopoulos starts now. Good morning. Im martha raddatz. George has the morning off. Its great to have you with us. And we begin with breaking news as more than 20 embassies and consulates are closing around the world right now. And here at home, increased security measures are now in place. Abc news has learned this morning that the intercepted communications that led to the alert indicate terrorists are planning an attack that is going to be big and, quote, strategically significant. Yesterday the white house held an hours long meeting, highlevel meeting with the countrys Top National Security officials to discuss the response to the threat, and weve just learned what went on at that meeting, so lets go straight to jon karl, who is at the white house, and, jon, it sounds like the National Security community is really spooked by this. Reporter no doubt about that, martha. The highlevel meetings here at the white house over the weekend are a sign of just how seriously the u. S. Is taking this threat. In fact, officials tell us they believe that there are al qaeda operatives already in place for this attack in yemen and possibly in other countries, as well. The cause for concern are those intercepted communications from the leadership of the al qaeda affiliate in yemen. One u. S. Official telling us, quote, the part that is alarming is the confidence they showed while communicating and the air of certainty about their plans. The official tells us they even talked about their media plan for after the attacks take place. Now, one of the things that is especially concerning about the al qaeda affiliate in yemen is that they have developed techniques to evade western security measures. Specifically officials are concerned about terrorists carrying surgically implanted bombs. As one u. S. Official told us, quote, these are guys who have developed the techniques to defeat our detection methods. Jon, people ive talked to said they dont know exactly what the target, even if its an embassy or consulate. What do you know about that . Reporter that is exactly right. Theyve closed those embassies and consulates, martha, because they are strategically significant and would fit that description, but there is no guarantee that this would be an embassy or a consulate. As a u. S. Official told us, we do not know whether they mean an embassy, an air base, an aircraft or trains. Now, we saw last year with attack on the consulate in benghazi, the diplomatic outposts are a possible target but, martha, there is no guarantee this time around that the target list is confined to embassies or consulates. Very frightening, jon, and thank you to you. And while the nsa helped uncover this latest Terror Threat, there are also new revelations this morning in the controversy over its secret surveillance programs. Glenn greenwald from the Guardian Newspaper has been at the center of all this breaking the story with his interview with Edward Snowden, and he joins us now from brazil. Good morning, glenn. Youre reporting there are new frustrations, frustrations in congress about being thwarted in attempts to exercise oversight. What does that mean, and who is stopping them . Members of congress, members from both Political Parties actually came to us and showed us all kinds of letters and emails that theyve been exchanging in which theyre trying to get the most basic information about what the nsa is doing and spying on american citizens and what the fisa court has been doing in terms of declaring some of this illegal, some of it legal. Remember, we keep hearing that theres all kinds of robust oversight by congress and we need not worry and yet these members of congress, one who is Morgan Griffith and alan grayson from florida showed us and were publishing this morning very detailed letters trying to get this information and theyre being blocked from getting it and theyve said and other members have said that they are forced to learn about what the nsa is doing from what theyre reading in our reporting. And when you say theyre being blocked, how are they being blocked . People are refusing to give it to them in congress . Correct. I think the most amazing thing, one of the most Amazing Things in this whole episode, martha, is that there is a 2011 opinion, 86 pages long from the fisa court that ruled, that much of what the nsa is doing which is spying on american citizens is both unconstitutional in violation of the Fourth Amendment and illegal, a violation of the statute. This opinion remains a complete secret. The fisa court has said they have no objection to having it released, but the Obama Administration insists it has to be secret. Both members of congress and others have been simply requesting to read that and Intelligence Committee who is led by mike rogers and Dutch Ruppersberger who receives all things from the industry and have refused to allow them access. Thats extraordinary to have a Court Opinion ruling that the government violated the constitution and the law and not only cant we read it, but our representatives in congress. Edward snowden, do you think hed ever accept a deal to come back to the United States . I think the concern is whistleblowers in the United States have become the number one enemy of the United States government, which is incredibly disturbing. Mcclatchey is reporting great things about how the Obama Administration, how they equate it with treason and all kinds of program. The New York Times has, as well, so unless that culture which investigative journalists in the United States have been warning about for several years changes fundamentally, he doesnt believe he can get a fair trial. Whistleblowers in the United States are put in prison for decades and basically disappeared as we just saw with bradley manning. Until that happens, i dont think he is willing to come back. Hes going to instead exercise his well established right to seek asylum from political persecution. Okay, glenn, thanks very much for joining us this morning. Now to respond to all of this, two key members of the house Intelligence Committee, Ranking Member Dutch Ruppersberger, democrat from maryland, and new york republican peter king. Thank you both for joining you us. I want to start and go back to the threat with the embassy. Ill let you talk about what Glenn Greenwald just said in just a moment. But i want to talk about that threat. I spoke to obamas top military adviser, general dempsey, about the Terror Threat, and this is what he said. Theres a significant threat stream, and were reacting to it. Is the threat to blow up an embassy, a consulate or Something Else . That part of it is unspecified, but the intent seems clear. And the intent is to what . The intent is to attack western, not just u. S. Interests. Representative ruppersberger, lets start with you. What specifics can you tell us . You heard what jon karl reported. This sounds like a very frightening, very credible threat. Yes, its a very credible threat, and its based on intelligence. You know, what we have to do now is most important is to protect americans throughout the world, whether the intelligence community, our military or people in the state department and citizens living throughout the world. We know that al qaeda and other people out there want to attack us and kill us and our allies. The good news is that we picked up intelligence, and thats what we do. Thats what nsa does. Nsas sole purpose is to get information intelligence to protect americans from attack. You heard jon report operatives are in place. Well, we can only say the intelligence that we get, and, by the way, intelligence is the best defense against terrorism. Those operatives are in place because weve received information that highlevel people from al qaeda and the Arabian Peninsula are talking about a major attack, and these are people at a high level. Now, whatever that intelligence is, we act upon it because our First Priority again is protect the americans that are in other parts of the world. Congressman king, this is also spread domestically. Were on a higher alert here in the country or at least beefed up security. I think americans dont really understand why this keeps growing in the last few days. First it was the embassy closing. Now domestically. Why the higher alert here in america . Well, quite frankly, martha, because this threat was so specific as to how enormous it was going to be and also theres certain dates given, but it didnt specify where its going to be and the assumption is that its probably most likely to happen in the middle east at or about one of the embassies but theres no guarantee of that at all. It basically could be in europe, it could be in the United States, it could be a series of combined attacks, the same concept as the 2006 liquid explosive planned attacks, whether there are going to be a series of attacks carried out almost simultaneously, so were ready for everything. This is what its about and the administration i think has tried to first with the embassies, then with the Global Travel advisory and also letting state and local governments know over the last several days of the nature of this threat that so we can be on guard so this is a wakeup call. Al qaeda is stronger than it was before 9 11 because its mutated and it spread and its spread in Different Directions and its the Arabian Peninsula that is probably the most deadly of all the al qaeda affiliates. Lets focus on these embassies for a moment. Congressman ruppersberger, if we can, is this more a reaction to benghazi because we dont know that the target is an embassy or a consulate. Look, we have to take all precautions, whatever, to protect american lives. It was unfortunate what happened with benghazi, and we need to learn about what happened to make sure that our highest priority will be to protect americans. So we need to make take every precaution necessary, and thats what were doing right now. Again, were relying on intelligence, but, you know, we get intelligence through singles intelligence, what nsa does and through human intelligence, but right now were concerned, and were attempting to prepare ourselves to protect americans. Thats the bottom line. I want your reaction to this. The New York Times reported this saturday that some analysts and congressional officials suggested friday that emphasizing a terrorist threat now is a good way to divert attention from the uproar over the nsas datacollection programs, and that if it showed the intercepts had uncovered a possible plot, even better. Whats your response to that . Well, i am glad you raised that issue because the bottom line is is that the nsas job is to do foreign intelligence. The whole purpose is to collect information to protect us. We have nsa people going to work every day that this whole purpose is to get information against terrorist attacks, and these people who work at nsa are hardworking people who follow the law. In fact, we have lost 20 members of the people working for nsa in iraq and afghanistan attempting to get information to help the troops. Now, this issue of metadata and that were violating the law is just not true. Thats absurd. We have checks and balances but what Edward Snowden leaked is very different than what were talking about here, tracking a terrorist. Representative king . Right. Yes, i mean as far as, you know, this being announced by the government, no, theres its absolutely crazy to say theres any conspiracy here. I mean, dutch has seen the intelligence. Ive seen it. The government would have been totally negligent if it did not take the actions taken. Whether there was any controversy over the nsa at all this would all these actions would have been taken. Im a republican. Im saying the administration ive had problems with the administration on different issues, well, what they are doing now is what has to be done. Theyd be derelict if they were not and, you know, we cant criticize them for doing too little with benghazi and now not criticize them for doing too much. Im giving them credit for what theyve learned from benghazi and thats why theyre firming up the embassies but as far as the worldwide alert, its absolutely warranted in this situation. I want a very Quick Reaction from both of you and i want to start with you, representative ruppersberger because Glenn Greenwald mentioned your name specifically. Are efforts being thwarted in trying to get information for members of congress . We have rules as far as the committee on what you can have and what you cannot have, however, based on that statement i just made is that since this incident occurred with snowden, weve had three different hearings for members of our Democratic Caucus and the Republican Caucus where general alexander has come with his deputy chris english to have any questions of people asked as it relates to this. And we will continue to do that because what were trying to do now is get the American Public to know more about whats going on, nsa is following the law and we have checks and balances. We have the courts. We have both the senate and house Intelligence Committee. We have the justice department. We have checks and balances here to make sure that nsa does not violate the law in what theyre doing and, you know, since these two programs have come into effect, especially the metadata theres not been one incident of the nsa breaking any law whatsoever but we can do better. I have to educate my caucus more, the Democratic Caucus and were trying to declassify as much as we can. We representative king, i want a very Quick Response from you, if you will. Thank you, representative ruppersberger. Okay, fine. Just a Quick Response. Over the last several weeks general alexander, all these top people have come in and subjected themselves to questioning from any member of congress at all including those most critical and found those who are most critical publicly ask the least amount of questions in private. But hes answered every question. They get the information, they sit there and they go they just so theyre just not telling the truth . With the members of congress. Ive never seen to me its unprecedented to have all of these top people from an administration during this time of crisis still come in and answer question after question after question, so anyone who says that congress is somehow being stonewalled is just wrong and is generally i think raised by people who are trying to make a name for themselves. Thank you very much for joining us. Good. Thank you, martha. And now for more on the Terror Threat and what it means, we welcome former secretary of Homeland Security Michael Chertoff and Jeffrey Goldberg of bloomberg view. I want to start with you, secretary chertoff. Really alarming details this morning. Seems a very credible threat but not a specific target. Operatives in place at least in one place, thats believed to be yemen, but here at home, these beefedup security measures, what do you make of all this . Why at home . Well, first let me observe, as congressman ruppersberger did, that apparently the collection of this warning information came from the kinds of programs weve been discussing about, the ability to capture communications overseas. Now, that gives you very credible information. Its believable because youre hearing the bad guys themselves talking about doing something. The challenge is its not specific. They havent yet talked about a particular target or a particular location, and thats why you have a broad warning but one thats taken quite seriously. But it reminds me of those colorcoded days. That everybody gets used to it, so is this going to be the new normal once again . Are we going to have vague threats for the homeland, indeed, and undertake these measures all the time . Well, its actually quite rare to have this broad and yet so alarming and specific warning be publicly disseminated. Whats going to happen now, though, is theyre going to follow all the leads to see if theres any way to connect people here in the u. S. To some of the bad guys overseas and, by the way specific bad guys. Jeffrey, what does it mean overseas when we close all of these embassies . I mean the one thing that i notice is, they trumped the ambassadors on this. Thats sort of a callback to benghazi and ambassador chris stevens. They didnt care what the ambassador said. Were closing down these embassies. What does that do to diplomacy . Right, well, were in a probe benghazi environment, so theyre going to be hypercautious now. What it does is, i mean this is very problematic. Youre telling 21 countries, you know, we want them to believe that were a powerful country, an open country, a free country, and were preemptively closing our embassies because of a somewhat vague threat. It does signal that al qaeda is very effective at scaring us, and thats not necessarily a very good message for our allies in that region to hear. What do you take what do you make of the fact that th