Follow president obama doesnt it. My interview with the White House Correspondent dinner emcee. Joining me Asa Hutchinson dorris concerns goodwin, alien cooper of the New York Times, and matt bye of yahoo news. William welcome to sunday. Its meet the press. From nbc news in washington this is meet the press. Good morning before we get to all the weeks politics and the discussion of americas drone war one story is dominating headlines across the globe this sunday. Desperate rescue efforts are underway after the worst earthquake to hit nepal in more than 80 years. It struck near the capital, katmandu. The death toll is now over 2,000. It includes 17 climbers who were killed by avalanches on Mount Everest. One nepali journalist said this the sadness is sinking in. We have lost our temples our history history, the places we grew grew up. Lets go to richard engle. Reporter it is now a city where people arent living inside their homes. Every green taste space has been taken over. People are afraid to go into their homes, to sleep inside their homes. Behind me is one of the biggest parks in the city. But it is not just this park. People are sleeping and cooking with their feels on the sidewalks, in the middle of the streets. They are afraid there could be another major earthquake or just more of the aftershocks. We felt today one of the aftershocks when we arrived. It happen just as we land at the airport and we were going through immigration. Suddenly the building started shaking. The immigration officers ran outside for cover. Then they came back. I think people have been amazingly calm in the several hours weve been here. Weve seen people quite resilient, taking it with a take it as it comes attitude. There are still foreigners in the city and they dont have their situation isnt much better than the people who are living in the parks behind me. The hotels are operating at a status of kind of semievacuation. The hotels arent kicking out their guest. They have nowhere to go and there arent any flights out of here. So the guests are stuck there. But they dont want the guests to go up to the rooms, spebl in the upper floors. The guests are sleeping in the lobby, in some of the lower hallways. Mostly they are sleeping in the gardens and in the parking lots in front of the hotel. We dont know how long this is going to last like this. People ive been speaking to in the park think they might be here several more days. Maybe a week. But it is not just here. There is the even more mysterious situation on Mount Everest. Some climbers have been evacuated from Mount Everest. Several, at least 17 including some americans, have been killed. But i think well only be learning more about exactly what happened on Mount Everest as those survivors come off the mountain. They can be debriefed and teams can go in to see what happened. Richard thank you. Now to the other big news of the week. One of the most striking changes in American Foreign policy under president obama has been a major escalation of drone strikes on al qaeda targets in pakistan yemen, and somalia. And controversy about americans who have joined al qaeda have been targeted and killed. In fact we learned of the latest instance this week when the white house revealed that two american Al Qaeda Leaders and two hostages, one italian and one american had been killed in drone strikes in january. Yet no one in government used the word drone strikes and politicians from both parties have been strangely reluctant to even talk about the issue. We all bleed when we lose an american life. We all grieve when any innocent life is taken. The who, what when where why, and how are all still murky. On january 14th american aide worker Warren Weinstein kidnapped in 2011 an italian, giovanni la porto held since 2012 were killed when an al kiv was hit by a cia drone strike. Another american a al qaeda commander was also killed. On january 19 a second strike killed al qaedas top spokeman adam gudan with a Million Dollar bounty on his head. He was not specifically targeted. The problem in these and other instances is that the cia doesnt always know who it is killing. Targeting only Al Qaeda Leadership. Two years ago president obama pledged to scale back the drone campaign. Before any strike is taken there must be near certainty that no civilians will be killed or injured. Reporter but socalled signature strikes have continued. Thats when the cia fires a missile base odd an pattern of behavior of people on the ground even if it does not know who i killing. Of the 3800 People Killed by drones since 2011 11 have been civilians. A lot of these stories you hear about in terms of oh, my goodness hundreds of civilians have been killed. A lot of that is propaganda put out by the elements opposed to the u. S. Coming in and helping. Reporter just 14 of pakistanis view the u. S. Favorably. Meanwhile in washington this week and on the campaign trail arc deafening silence. Rand paul staged a 13hour filibuster two years ago to protest u. S. Drone policy. This time his campaign issued just a sentence. It is a tragedy that these hostages lost their lives. My prayers and thoughts are with their family. A reminder of the collective reluctance of washington to question president obamas covert war. Im joined by a person who was in the room when the president made key decisions about the drone war in the early part of his president. These two strikes killed two hostages that the cia was unaware of and two al qaeda operatives that the cia was unaware of. How does that happen. The two operations that you talked about, in the first case there was a determination made these were military facilities against which action should be taken. That was the result of hundreds of hours ever surveillance all kinds of analysis and red teaming and that assessment was true. These were enemy facilities al qaeda compounds as the president disclosed. They were frequented by Al Qaeda Leadership and therefore legitimate military targets. That assessment was correct. The president also has publicly stated the framework under custom we make the determination about Collateral Damage or the killing of innocents. In in case that turned out to be wrong. The standard that the president put in place is very high near certainty that there wont be death to civilians. This didnt meet those standards. The protocols were followed the standard whether or not this was a military facility where al qaeda operated out of and was a threat to our forces was accurate. But hostages were held against one of the facilities we took into action. What the president said here is we should take another look because it was a tragic accident. You say that the protocols he announced all of these in may 2013 almost two years. But it doesnt seem like many of the new protocols have been implemented. He wanted to refine and repeal the war resolution itself to have to deal with this. Reduction, reduced drone strikes by the end of 2014. This was done in 2015. Obviously, i think the goal was when the Afghanistan War was done and the withdrawal complete the Drone Program would maybe completely end or nearly enfrom move from the cia and pentagon. Obviously we didnt withdraw from afghanistan. Why didnt we move to the pentagon . We have oversight of those operations. There is . That is correct. A lot of people dont belief that. There is oversight over these programs. Number two the framework is in place. And if indeed the standard by which the government makes a decision whether or not to take a strike is near certainty, near certainty whether or not there will be injuries to a civilian in this case that protocol was followed and it turn out to be inaccurate. The president asked for a review in this circumstance as to why that turned out to be inaccurate. But there is no doubt about the effectiveness of these programs or the necessity of these operations. You dont think these drones of killing terrorists with drones, unmanned isnt making more terrorists . That has been a concern for some time. I dont think that is the case. This is what i think is the case. Comprehensive evident by the United States against al qaeda and its leadership has resulted in a safer america. That in fact we have been able to decimate al qaedas leadership, that weve been able to reduce the threat to our forces in afghanistan and our interests around the world and in the United States. My own judgment is that ab isnt these operations like the president described object thursday absent these kinds of operations, a comprehensive effort against al qaeda there would have been further action against u. S. Interests perhaps at the homeland. I dont have any doubt about that. Lets talk about the Constitutional Rights of the two americans turned al qaeda operatives. The legal situation here is murky. According to the president they didnt know they were targeting, that these two individuals would be there. Had they known these two americans turned al qaeda operatedives were there would the strikes have happened . Lets go through the analysis. These two al qaeda senior operatives were not targeted. Had they been known to be there, would this drone strike have happened . Its go through that. They were not targeted. What was targeted was the afghanistan facility in the war theater. Secondly an american citizen who goes abroad and wages war against the United States as the president said in his speech said does not get a she had. No due process. No more in the example that the president gave no more than a sniper inquiring on a crowd does not get immunity or a shield against being taken out by a s. W. A. T. Team in the United States. They were not targeted. They were in the military facility. If the United States decides to take action against a american there are processes in place that allows that. Had we known there were americans there the drone strike would have been at least delayed until they got the proper protocol. There would have been a review an additional review by the attorney judge and Justice Department with respect to ensuring that the constitutional and statutory rights of those individuals were protected. Final question do you believe this was an intelligence fail oou . This is not a raid against a military facility. It was based on hundreds of hours of intelligence. And the assessment that it was an al qaeda compound in the military war zone was correct. Secondly with respect to the near certainty standard with respect to not having civilian casual tees. In that case here it turns out not to be correct. And thats why the president asked for a review. A. But is it a failure in intelligence. I said the protocols were followed and it was accurate with respect to whether or not this was an al qaeda facility. But in fact there were hostages being held there. Now, it is difficult to know that obviously. I spent a lot of time for example, working on the hundred for bin laden. It took us years over the course of two administrations to find him. He is a very tough business. And if you are looking for again, as tragic as this was, two things this is very important to protecting the United States and secondly and if you are looking for accuracy you are not going to find it in the war setting. Im now joined by mike azello an expert on drone warfare. Mr. Zenko, welcome to meet the press. Let me ask you this. The Drone Program as it stands now, is it as necessary and successful as you heard it outlined by mr. Donin just now . That outline presumes the assumption that the United States must be continuously using military force against a wide away of militant and terrorist organizations. Once you start with that assumption i would say the by father policy choices the white house presents is you can either have a massive military occupation like iraq or you can conduct your own strikes in which case they become particularly wise and ethical. I would say that the real question is why is it that the United States has been conducting these strikes since november 3rd 2002 50 under president bush. 365 under president obama. And the groups that the United States has been trying to defeat or eliminate either stay the same in size grow or move to other countries. The real question is how effective has this been as part of the comprehensive strategy that mr. Donin claems the United States has employed. What is the unintended consequence, do you believe, of being able to engage militarily without basically with robots with a robot, with a drone, without any potentially risking blood and treasure when it comes to a military hit . Compared to all other weapons platforms drones have inherent advantages. They can persist over targets for long time. They are responsive in terms of putting a munition on top of a facility or a car or an individual. Obviously, i dont place u. S. Service members at any degree of risk. Subsequently since the u. S. Sirser first had this capability it significantly lowers the threshold for when policy makers will author the oou use of force. There have been 325 drone strikes in pakistan. No president would have authorized 425 manned aircraft raids into pakistan. It changes the kak calculus as to when officials will authorize the use of force. Is there an alternative to drones that will be easier to sell to policy makers perhaps that are skeptical to what we are doing and frankly somewhat i dont know if you call pakistan as a fullfledged ally but to keep an ally like pakistan from being too upset about it . . Again, you are assuming the you United States must be using military force. Once you make in a assumption the drones become the preferred method. The question is how are these being used and coordinated with the other elements of power. President obama had a fascinating observation the other day when he said we need to start thinking about isolation and countertrirm and think about education. Thats great to realize six years into his administration but we seem to fall back on the default tactic as the method we use. And the drone has become the face of u. S. Foreign policy not just in the countries with receiving the strikes but around the world. Right now, the u. S. Is the lone country using the drones as much as it is. What happens when other countries start using drones for their own military use . These are prolittle rating slowly. But other countries have deployed them in some instances. The british, the israelis as well. But president obama has correctly stated that the United States is setting precedents and principles that they hope other countries will adhere to. The problem is that the absence of clarity or transparency in these precedents or principles and the clear fact that the outlined guidance that president obama put forth in may 2013 is not directly guiding u. S. Policy there is a gap between how the u. S. Justifies the use of drones and how they actually employ them. If other states follow that perceived hypocrisy gap i think that will be devastating for Foreign Policy interests and Global Security in general. Mike i appreciate you coming on meet the press ander for sharing your view. Thank you. When we come back the legal odd couple, they are fightin [ male announcer ] ours was the first modern airliner, revolutionary by every standard. And that became our passion. To always build Something Better airplanes that fly cleaner and farther on less fuel. That redefine comfort and connect the world like never before. After all, you cant turn dreams into airplanes unless your passion for innovation is nonstop. Its more than the cloud. Its security and flexibility. Its where great ideas and vital data are stored. With centurylink you get advanced Technology Solutions from a trusted it partner. Including cloud and hosting services all backed by an industry leading Broadband Network and people committed to helping you grow your business. You get a company thats more than just the sum of its parts. Centurylink. Your link to whats next. 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