Coming home four times and i think that story was not lost in the film and thats not the story that is selling ticket, right but what we were able to do, what jason was able to do is weave those two together and really spark a dialogue that has caught fire in this country about what it means to go to war but what it means to come home. I thought it raised for the American Public what military veterans go through. The obvious injuries and wounds are seen by everything but it is those conspicuous wounds that often e the ones we deal with in the va and i thought it was great to be able to raise that to the American Public. Rose nick burns and the film american sniper when we return. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following. Additional funding provided by. And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose we begin with president obama and german chancellor angela merkel, the meeting took place amid renewed fighting between ukrainian rebels and ukrainian troops. They said they would continue to exert economic pressure but did not agree on how, despite merkels objection obama would not rule out the use of lethal weapons. It is true that if, in fact, diplomacy fails what i have asked my team to do . Looat all options. What other means can we put in place to cnge mr. Putins calculus, and the possibility of lethal defense stiff weapons is one those options that is being examined. Joining me now from boston is nick bernls, in in, burns, he is profsor at hear extraordinarys Kennedy School of goverentnd i am pleased to have him back on this program. Welcome. Thanks charle. Rose so the president says that he is not yet prepared to send lethal weapons, are, or open the door to that but wanted to try further diplomatic efforts and also sanions to isolate russia. Do you believe that can be successful . I am very skeptical of that, just the sanctions and the political process will stop president putin, it was disinteresting charlie did mention at the White House Press conference he is considering sending defensive arms to ukraine, it is the first time he has been that forthcoming and i think in a way what you are seeing here charlie is president obama is trying to help chancellor merkel stiffen up the european position on these talks with president putin, the penalties led by chancellor merkel very invested in peace negotiations think there is a possibility of putting together a ceasefire and an agreement that would separate the forces that would potentially give the ethnic russian population of Eastern Ukraine a greater measure ofutonomy and the fact that the United States over the past week has been talking about sending arms to ukraine i think is actually produc some terest from the ruians in having these discussion requests the europeans. So i think they are working together but they dont see eye to eye because the United States i think hasome to the conclusion the sanctions havent worked and havent stopped president putin he p thousands of men and lots of terial across the border into the ukraine to turn the tide of that war between the to russn relation and Ukrainian Military. Rose wh is his objective . I think his objective has been clear from the start way back in february march of 2014, when he, annexed crimea is destabilize ukraine and not a unified uh huhuh cranian state drifting westward to an economic relationship with the european union, a closer relationship with the United States, ukraine and russia as you well know they go back 1,000 years together millions of the ethnic russians in ukraine and vice versa, they go all the way back to the founding of the Orthodox Church in kiev. So president putineels ukraine cannot be allowed to drift out of the on or about of russia and a 20th think never a lot of ways, he sees if ukraine becomes truly independent in the next several years heees th as aoss los to russian russia. Rose how is he using russian soldiers. He is a former k colonel and puttinghousand of russian soldiers beginning in the early summ across the border to man some of the sophisticated weapon systems, actually to engage in the fighting against the Ukrainian Army and he has been denying i never been an affirmation of, this confirmation by any russian official he tells the press that russia is not doing anything in ukraine and the whole world sees it to be the lie it is, so it is direct military support to undermine president poroshenko, this new president as of this past spring, in the ukraine. What would be a diplomatic solution to the conflit . I think what the west could live with would be the Ukrainian Government retaining of course sovereignty in all of its territory, including in Eastern Ukraine, the Ukrainian Government agreeing to if some measure of political autonomy local Decision Making in the big russian ethnic situations lie donetsk and Eastern Ukraine but that the Ukrainian Army and the Ukrainian Police would be in charge of law and order and be a vestige of sovereignty anything less than that is a real defeat for the ukrainians and so from a very start of this conflict, i think that merkel and obama made a very important decision they were not going to instigate a military 0 conflict, they werent going to fight russia for ukraine whic obviously was a wise decision that left them however with very limited leverage, they have tried sanctions, there have been three or four big sanction efforts by the United States and canada, as well as the eu but they clearly havent stopped putin, he keeps going. He keeps arming and funding this rebellion, so now the u. S. Has said, can we try Something Like the u. S. Tried back with president carter and president reagan in arming the mujahedin in afghanistan can we provide defensive arms that will do two things, raise the cost to putin in a substantial way and it will also level the Playing Field for the Ukrainian Military so that there is a fair fight and i think the administration believes they might be rit to believe this that if you level the Playing Field like that and the ukrainians are more capable of fighting that might actually be the best way to convince putin to go to negotiations for some kind of diplomatic arrangement on autonomy. But you think pin would ever accept some western influence . The obama and Bush Administration before it made it very clear ukraine was not about to be a member of nato we understand russian sensitivities as you know ukraine has had a corrupt government in the past, almost a failed state no rean to the bring them into nato. We made that clear in russian d president obama has done the same thing. What the ukrainians are trying to do a year ago year and a half ago a this is wh the protests were all about, they were trying for arade agreement with the european union, that was the trip wire that caused president obama putin to decide he could not step even tha this is really not nato, it is about a more westward orientation of the ukrainian goverent and ukrainian economy away from the embrace of frank he an imperialist expansionist russian government under president putin. And the president said today he discouraged or interpreted he was discouraging speculation, discouraging speculation about a further extension of the iran nuclear talks. What are tim my indications of that . Actually i think it is smart diplomacy for the president to say that you want to increase the pressure on the iranian government to really come to a bottom line, to show their cards and see what they are willing to the commit to and interim date of march 24 where the conceptual part of the deal has to be put tother, interestingly enough the Supreme Court leader said over the weekend in a speech in iran he didnt want to see these talks go on forever, in fact he wanted a short deadline to them o i think it makes sense and of course you know there is political Pressure Congress is willing to wait until the end of march to see if the president can put forward aeal so what happens if there is no deal and renewed sanctions. This is a very difficult negotiation and if the, it is the iranians who need to face the packet that turks, is is not going to allow them to achieve a nuke war weapon capability so they have to make some pretty big decision business the end of march as to whether or not they will curtail that Civil Nuclear fort, th Enrichment Program in such a way that we can be assured in, and the europeans can too they are nowhere close to a nuke war weapono i think the president has a chance for this deal and frankly, charlie i think he has done a very skillful job of bo sanctioning the iranians to date, threateni military force and yet being willing to have this historic period of the last 15 month where for the first time in 35 years u. S. And iran have been talking and i think there is a chance for a deal. If it doesnt happen if the negotiations fall apart you will see much tougher economic sanctions,. Rose what is the relationship between germany and the United States, between merkel and obama . I think actually the personal relation ship between the two is pretty good. Chancellor merkel she speaks russian, and putin speaks german, she is the major interlocutory with president putin so they may get together later this week and i think president obama and secretary kerry have a lot of respect for her and we need germany, we need germany especially if putin doesnt agree to a deal on these ukraine talks, we will need germany to sanction rusia further. Rose if you went to the state Department Today wha would you most worry about with respect to the ukraine a the conflict between russia and the west. West . I would worry, charlie president but putin would feel embolden and didnt face resistance in ukrai so despite destabilizing ukraine and take over part of moldova and the real nightmare for our leader hip is russia attempt to disrupt nato allies that border russian like estonia and latvia and you have seen nato try to reinforce with troops and with aircraft in nato position up there not because we want to fight but because we know that putin understands one thing power. And he understands if he faces a brick wall, ten he understands he has got to negotiate, if he can go right through someone he will keep going. So i think a tough minded respond 0 response to putin, not mitt tarries stick but tough minded is important. Rose great to see you nick. Nick burns from the Kennedy School. Back in a moment. Stay with us. American sniper has been both a critical and a commercial success and also generated some controversy, it tells the story of chris kyle, who was an iraq war veteran and sniper who killed 160 people, considered the most kills of a u. S. Sniper in history. Supporters of the film praise kyle as an american hero, critics art it misrepresents the man and paint a simplistic picture of a complicated war, lost in t rgts is a conversation about the sacrifices of veterans and the challenges they face when they come home. Joining me now is jane hau he wrote the screen play for american sniper, jake book a form anywhere the marine sounder and o team rucon, nonprofit that trains and debelow. Jaco schick he is a retired marine who suffered severe wounds in iraq and also has a role in the film. And joining us from wash queab washington bob mcdonald head of the va, the i am pleaded to have all of them here at this table and in washington. Bob, it is good to have you back on the program, tell me about the film as you saw it. Charlie, i was thrilled to see the film because i thought it raised the american, to the American Public what military veterans go through. The obviously injuries and wounds are seen by everyone but it is those inconspicuous wounds are the the ones we often deal with in the va and i thought it was grat to raise that to the American Public. It also seems to me to reflect the idea that when a man a woman go to war they take their family with them in a sense, correct . Well certainly you take your family, your loved ones with you and then when you return those connections becomencredibly important. We, at the va we did a program called make the connection, which is all about that when people return from the battlefield, we want to reconnect them with their families and one of the things we do which you saw in the movie is we appear counselors who have been through these kinds of situations and can provide support for that individual who has been on the battlefield. Rose jake, what doyou, what did you think of the film . I thought the film was really well done as bob alluded to it, it really weaves together both tales the easy female to tell is what happened in iraq,. Rose the legend of chris kyle. The 160 kyle some of the toughest battles in iraq but the complicated is him coming home four times i think that story was not lost in the film and thats not the story that is selling tickets, right but what we were able to do, what jason was able to do is weave those two together and really spark a dialogue that has caught fire in this country about what it means to go to war but what it means to come home. When i said take your family with you, i think the phrase some people use is when a man goes to war his wife and family go with him to war. Absolutely. Rose and thats the idea. Absolutely. Rose what did you think . I was very pleed with it. It was obviousl rose pleased with your performance . I was about to say [laughter. ] i may be a little biased you know, youere okay. Ah you know. No. It was amazing. I mean he definitely captured the struggle that is coming home and, being a wounded guy i know that for a fact that physical pain lets you know you are alive but mental pain will stay that way, and. Rose the mental pain is harder no doubt just because i have a lost leg if i am wearing shorts in the future you know i had a bad day in the office somewhere along the way but it is those wounds that are inbetween your ears that are the most painful by far. You say that script you ended up with was dramatically influenced by conversations with chriss widow. Thats right. Yes, the movie i wrote alongside chris was more of a war story where i feel this is much more of a story about war. And his sacrifice. She enabled me to understand who he was before the war, without knowing that i didnt know what the sacrifice was, and, you know, it is hard for a man to eveal that stuff, it is hard for a man to explain where it hurts and like yaib is saying what he came home with, and, you know, i got some of that from chris but she really guild in the blanks. She said i think at one point if yowant to know a man talk to his wife. Yeah, i said that, i said that, that is true. If you want to know me ask my wife, you ask me how i hurt i will say hey lets go get a sandwich, come 0 come on. What did she tell you about chris kyle . She expressed how tender this guy was that she met,and when they met she was in a really dark place, she was had a bad relationship, you know, was suffering and he was really patient with her, and he with one of their first dates he talk her to a theatre, you see this big hulking dangeros, most dangerous sniper and may i will take you to a play. You know, and rented a cottage and gave her the back room and slept on the couch and he was just very big hearted and he lost that, you know, he lost some of that through the course of these tours and she was able to describe the hardening and the callous of this man and eventually how he found his way back which is beautiful. Bob the question of purpose we have mentioned that earlier before we started, taking the idea that in war you have purpose. You have urgency and purpose and mission and sometimes when you come back home perhaps including your own family purpose has to be regained. Thats right, charlie, i think of, you know, in a sense you have to redirect that purpose, the purpose when you are in the military is obviously, you are on the battlefield, you are trying to save lives, you are trying to get the mission done. I think what jake does with his team rube son rubicon i wonderful because for those veterans leaving the military they redirect that purpose to a Natural Disaster or some other event going on, and in the va we try to do the same thing and deal with the Spiritual Health of the veteran and we try to redirect their purpose into something that is as meaningful and creates as much selfesteem for them as they have in the military. Rose thats what you are doing with relief as in haiti and other places. Yes absolutely. You know, i always talk about this proto till c 18yearold kid who joins the army, right . Gets shipped off to boot camp and handed a rival gets a uniform and eventually gets sent to a unit and a year later that individual is sent to iraq or afghanistan and every sing dale for a year he walked outde the wire with 12 member who he knew had his back no matter the circumstance and they were fighting for a mission that he believed in. And he comes home and he takes the uniform off, he might go back to his hometown in omaha, nebraska but things aent the same, he might reconnect with High School Friends but nothing like the 12 men who had his back outside of the wire every single day in iraq, he might get a job but nowhere near the same purpose driven job he had while he was in the military and he may get some so of new identity and they be a father, a student, anything but it is not going to replace th identity he he had when he wasearing the ifo of his countr so how do you replace that void is. What did you learn about that when you were writing this . Those relationships become their pry ma