Not a job very many people could do. Rose David Axelrod for the hour next. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the following rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose David Axelrod is here a political strategist who lead barak obamas historic president ial campaign and served in the white house a Senior Advisor to the president. He founded the institute of politics at the university of chicago after leaving washington in 20 it. His new book is called believer. My 40 years in politics am he reflects on his career working on more than 150 Political Campaigns. David gergen writes in the New York Times in his review would barack obama have been elected president without David Axelrod . That question is less farfetched than it may seem. Im pleased to have David Axelrod back at this tablement welcome. Im so glad to be here charlie. Rose well come to that question a bit later. He would have done quite well without you and you would have done quite well without him. But the two probably was greater than the sum. And the truth is im not sure either of us would have gone forward in politics but for the fact that we came together at a time when each of us was at kind of an exi tension existential moment in our career. Hi grown dismayed about the cynical nature of the business that i was in of campaigns. And he had lost a race for congress and was making a decision about one more campaign. And if he had lost it he told michelles thiss it. I will be out of politics an i will pursue other things. So this was around his senate race in to 04. We started working together today that in 2002. And so. Rose a senator in a field of six. A field of seven. And not all all a frontrunner. He was very much a secondtier quand data at the time that we hooked up. But you know i knew him and i liked him. And i told my wife susan that if i could help become a United States senator that would be something i would be proud of for the rest of my life. So i shunned some more lucrative offers and went to work for him. Rose does everybody who does what you do want to find a candidate that they think will take them and him or herself to the white house . You know, there is this sort of jockey kind of mentality. Everybody wants to ride in the Kentucky Derby which can be he is duckive in a dangerous way sometimes. I have to con feses when i hooked up with barack in this campaign for the senate it really wasnt for a race at the white house in mind. At the time there was no africanamerican in the United States senate. I knew what i good guy he was how well motivated he was and how bright he was. I knew he would be a big contributor there. But it wasnt really until after the convention in 2004. Rose whether he did the keynote. That it was clear that he was on a fast track. I did you know as i wrote in the book. I was working for john edwards for president in the 2004 race. Didnt work out very well for me personally with him. And i was working for obama at the same time when he was running for the senate. And the contrast between the two was really profound because edwards you know he was always fine to me decent to me. I think he cared about people. I dont want to suggest otherwise. Smart guy. But he kind of wanted the cliff notes. He wanted to do what he needed to do in order to get to the next run. Rather than understanding policy. And obama wanted to drill three and four levels deep. And really thoughtful. And it come ported with what i thought about him from the first time i met him which was here is a guy that thinks that winning elections isnt the most important thing. Its what you do when you win the election. And what you do to move your community or the country forward. And so i saw National Kind of skills even in that campaign. But the convention was sort of the line of demarcation. Rose did you see in him at that time a man that might be president . You know i got to tell you. Rose because everybody steps forward and says i saw him Rahm Emmanuel says that. Yeah yeah well dont hook him up to a lie detector on that one. Well i met i met barack in 1992 when a friend of mine bette lou satzman a of liberal politics in chicago called me and said i just met the remost remarkable young man and i think you should meet him. I said i will be happy to meet anyone you want by why this guy. She said i think he would be the first africanamerican president of the United States. This was in 1992 when he returned from law school. I always joke when i go to the track i bring bette lou with me because she can spot winners. So i had lunch with him. And i remember very clearly how impressive he was. He didnt walk away humming hail to the chief. But what was clear to me was here was a guy who had been president of the harvard law review, editor of the harvard law review. First africanamerican could have written his ticket at any corporation any law firm and been set for life essentially. And instead came back to chicago to run a Voter Registration drive. Rose did he do that to a place that he could live and start a Political Campaign . I think that was part of it. But i think in the conversation with him what was clear to me was that he saw Public Service as a vehicle to do things. You know, i think charmie the world of politics divides into two categories one more numerous than the other. The first are people who want to be something and the second are people without want to do something. And im attracted to that second group because i believe the title believer is not about barack obama its about the ability to the ability we have to steer our future by through the practice of politics. Rose an to come to believe in something bigger than yourself. Absolutely. My whole interest in this started when i was a kid here in new york city. Five years old woman who used to take care of me when my mother was at work named jessie barry africanamerican woman very poor. Came from the south. Took care of other peoples kids so she could take care of her own. Took me to 20th street because she heard john f. Kennedy was coming. This was ten days before the 1960 elections which telling you how things had changed. Because he had a stop in new york, new york ten days before the election. Because new york was a swing state in that race with. Rose now democrats hardly come to new york. Only to raise money. And so she put me on a mailbox and i watched 20th street fill in with people. And this young man jumped on this platform. And everybody watched with rant attention. It was clear it was important. I didnt understand all the words then. But but it was clear it was important and what he said, i found out on google years later google which no one could have imagined then was that im not here to tell you that if you elect me everything will be good. He said being an american citizen in the 1960s is a hazardous occupation filled with challenge but also hope. And well decide in this election which path we take. And the message was we have some ability to control our destiny. And these decisions matter. His brother who i worked for when i was nine years old a few years later running here in new york Bobby Kennedy said the future is not a gift its an achievement. And thats the epigram of my book. In other words we have to craft and work for that future. And that to me is what politics is about. And obama understood that. It was clear that that is what he believed too. Rose but you didnt go into running Political Campaigns. You went and became a journalist, a political journalist. I did. I worked on campaigns when i was a kid and i went to the university of city at this. City city. And i went there in part because it was a great political town back in the early 70s. They just had had the convention there last of the big city machines Richard D Daly university of chicago was in theout side where black independent politics was beginning to flourish. I thought this would be really interesting. When i got to the university of chicago at that time the problem was that nobody wanted to talk about anything that happened after the year 1800. And so i started writing for a local newspaper in order to kind of state my interest in politics. And i kind of became a little expert on chicago politics while i was still a College Student parlayed that into a job at the chicago tribune. Rose and started to write about politics and cover politics. I spend two and a half years on nights because they said to me you know a lot about politics but you better learn how to be a reporter. I covered a lot of murder and mayhem which was good preparation for chicago politics. And i got taken off that beat from time to time to cover what they thought, you know the losing candidates just to give me a little taste of it. They took me off in 1979 to work for a woman named jane birn who was challenging the machine. And she became mayor. And that was the beginning of my six or four and a half, five years as a political reporter and City Hall Bureau chief at the tribune. Rose and how did you get into politics . I got a little disillusioned at the newspaper because the corporate guys were kind of pressing in on the newsroom something that is very familiar today. And the atmosphere of the newsroom we had a very great sort of front page dynamic when i got there it sort of shifted. I became a little disillusioned about the direction of things. And about that time a fellow by the name of paul simon. Rose senator from illinois. Sort of an orville red enbacker type character but really a paragon of progressiveism and integrity. And he asked me to work for him. And he ri cysted and resisted. He was running for the senate. He was a congressman at the time. And finally i decided i was going to make the jump. And i went to work for paul. And we won i went over there as a Communications Direction and through a series of calamities ended up as the campaign manager. And we ended upbeating charles percenty who was a threeterm senator. One of the only. Rose moderate republican. Although he was trying to shift a little bit to the right to try and get in step with the reagan wave which was going on at the time. And i think that hurt him in that election. And we ended up winning while reagan carried the stayed in a landslide simon edged percenty out. So it was a big win. And that was pie launch in politics. Rose then you got involved with barack obama and he got the senate nomination. And then in 2004 he he goes to the condition vention in boston where john kerry is being nominated. How did he get that speech . Well it wasnt an imago lat conception i must say. We did campaign for that. He let it be known that we were interested in it. He had come shortly after the primary the Senate Primary that obama won and obama spoke at an event and got a huge response. So Kerry John Kerry i should say filed that away. So he was prone to accept our petition to give the speech. And then we were driving around in Southern Illinois one day in the spring. And we got a call from Mary Beth Cahill who was kerrys manager. And she said to obama we want you to give the keynote speech. What i remember about it is him hanging up and saying i know what i want to say instantly. I said what is that. He said i want to talk about my story as part of the larger american story. Rose he talked to me about that at this table. And his capacity to make his narrative and parkers narrative intertwine is the success that he had in communicating with the american people. Yes. And, well, first of all his his capacity for narrative generally and the ability to tell his story and a story is arch exceptional quality. Rose but he didnt seem to have that in it 00 2012. Well, it was a different kind of election. One of the great difficulty people always you can imagine it is frustratedding for me to hear as someone in both the campaigns and the white house, you know gee he was so great in communicating and the team was so great in communicating when he was a candidate. Why were they so bad at communicating. Well when you come to the white house in the midsta t an epic economic crisis two wars and you face implacable opposition, and youre trying to get a lot of things done its a much its like three dimensional communication rather than the kind of communication you do in campaigns. And when we ran for reelection in 2012 2012 we had to acknowledge the reality of our situation. Many people were there was a headline in the snork times on the magazine cover of a magazine a year out mr. Silver the handi capper for the times nate silver said wrote the piece and it was his obama toast. That is where we were all yearround. So we had to run a different kind of campaign than we ran in it 008. There was no wave behind us. And we had to grind it out. And so now i would argue that we did ultimately control the message of that campaign and it was about the its much of what we are hearing today about the middle class about how we build an economy that works for the middle class and thats why we were able to win the election. Rose tell me today though, what do you see when you see barack obama. Having gone through what he has gone through having been with him and then not with him in terms of where you are over the last four years. Yeah. Rose what do you see . First of all i see in the last several months. Rose at the midterm. Sinced Midterm Election when he lost i see a guy who seems reborn. I mean theres a new bounce in his step. I think hes very focused and enthusiastic and he was exil rated by the things that he was able to do right after the election, the deal with china on Climate Change. Immigration reform. Rose reaching out to cuba. Absolutely. Rose but there are those who say that the tone he has now is almost defiant. Well look here is the key to understanding. Rose and that he has no more elections to win. Right. Rose or lose. Right. He also doesnt have a democratic majority in the senate now. And you know when you are the president and your party has one or both houses of congress you have to be somewhat responsive to their needs as well. Its less so now. I mean we saw it last year. Rose harry reid had needs. He was very needy last year in the sense that he didnt want the president out, they didnt want the president out. They didnt they thought he was a negative symbol for some of their senate candidates. Rose and he was the issue. Right. Rose bill clinton will argue today that that was a real problem until the president became the issue and there was no National Agenda on the part of democrats. I couldnt agree more with him. And bill clinton probably understands as well as anyone that you can never run away from the president. It was a fools errand. So if the president is going to be the issue at least let the president who is the best communicator you have go out there and focus a national message. I believe if he had made the speech he made at the state of the union this year about a year and a half earlier and had made a sustained presentation on this economic message democrats would have done better at least at the margins. There were some states that were very very difficult. But i think he could have made a difference. Rose but even he had to call on bill clinton and say to bill clinton and make him quote explainer in chief. Yes. And bill clinton had the standing to do it because he was clear of some of the problems that we had. Remember this president took over in the midst of the worst economic crisis in history. Bill clinton was seen as someone who presided over an economic revival. And he therefore had qualifications to go out and speak about the economy in a way that was very compelling to people. He is also he is an incredibly gifted. I worked with him toward that Convention Speech i write in the book about the experience of waiting for his draft which came two hours before the speech and was half the length that he actually delivered. He wanted to sneak the goods through customs. But when i heard his speech. Rose a lot of what he said he had not put on paper. No no no. In fact i was standing next to the podium at the foot of the podium an watching his teleprompter and it kept stopping and he kept talking. I finally figured out. I am not that quit he mem orized half his speech wrote the other and gave it to us. But you know what that was fine. Because he was spectacular. And i really appreciated that. Rose what did it do for the campaign . Well look his role i was the one who no name nominated him within our group to do the nominating speech at the convention and do just what he did. We wanted him to bring the economic case against the republicans and for the president to the american people. And he did that. And then he went out and he repeated it wherever he went. And he you know he was the first call the president made after governor reallyny conceded. And he said you were the mvp of the campaign. And given the friction that occurred in the 2008 campaign between bill clinton and barack obama to see the forging of that relationship over time was interesting to watch. Rose who gives credit for bringing that relationship to a better place . I think they both they both had to get over some things. But you know what i realize. Rose having to do with clinton and South Carolina things like that. Yeah, there was obviously some bitterness over some of the things that passed between them in 2008. And i think maybe more on the part of president clinton. But cuz its easier when you win to forget about these things. But you know what you realize when you work as i did 20 feet from the oval office, is that president s dont have too many peers. There are five living president s. And they you uniquely understand what that office is about and the kind of pressures that one faces rdz tell me what they understand. Well they understand first of all that nothing comes