Ultimately kind of implodes on his own which i think is the bet of a lot of these republicans who arent spending Political Capital to attack him, if you see trump come in a second or even a third, its very hard to see the guy who says im winning im winning im winning build back from that. Rose weevening with peter s new book is called United States of jihad, investigating americas home grown terrorist. Youre talking about wolves, People Associated with foreign terrorist organizations, in a sense theyre part of a virtual pack. When you get online and start looking at isis pop gran dahuk up with people around the world, there are hundreds of people with the same views around the world saying isis is great. Rose politics and home grown terrorism when we continue. Rose funding for charlie rose has been provided by rose additional funding provided by and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose the New Hampshire primary is one day away. Donald trump and Bernie Sanders maintain commanding leads in the polls. Marco rubio after finishing a strong third in iowa is now having to rebut what some consider a poor debate performance. Donald trump and marco rubio was on this morning. You had a huge lead. The second story is marco rubio suffered in the debate. All of the analysts after the debate said that he really took it on, he took a hard blow from the governors, what do you think of that . Well, he did. I was standing next to him. He was to my right, and he was having a hard time. It was sort of interesting to watch because hes made the one statement and im one with a good memory so im hearing the one statement and then a couple minutes later he made the same statement almost identical. I said thats okay, weve repeated ourselves on occasion, charlie, right. Rose yes. Other than norah and dale but we repeat ourselves constantly. We heard it again, maybe even a fifth time. And i thought that was really strange. It turned out to be a massive blow up. But it was certainly different. I mean, im standing there and im saying did i hear that five time now. Whats going on here. And it was, you know, obviously a sound byte but you cant use it twice. Im going to continue to say it, barack obama is deliberately carrying out a strategy to change america. He wants to redefine this country. It is one of the main reasons im running and it is one of the reasons why i feel so good about our debate performance despite whatever the media people want to say. It was the biggest funds raising nights we had. I feel great about it and were going to continue to say the truth. Barack obama is systematically trying to carry out an to chane which country. Rose we have hugh from the hugh hewitt show. Im pleased to have him back. Good evening. Rose what made you convinced cruz would win when the polls show donald trump win. There are two answers to that charlie. One is radio hosts are frequently wrong but never in doubt so we always assert what we believe to be true. But the data point what social media touches and the social Media Organization run by a couple people, john and josh is a super pack operation. Its probably the most sophisticated of any of the republicans thats been up and running for two years with a massive data bank. I dont know if it scales in New Hampshire, but it certainly worked in iowa. They knew who every one of their voters was and where they could be found that day. Rose so tell me how you see it in New Hampshire. I think donald trump won tomorrow by not losing on saturday night. I think hes going to win. I think john kasich is going to come in second. I think marco rubio will be third. My kasich theory is this. Its my uncles theory of politics. John kasich is everybodys uncle and theyll vote for him in New Hampshire because theyre independent minded, fair minded yankee kind of thing. Everyones got a lawyer uncle. I an that for some of my nephews who you call when youre in trouble. You got christie and cruz and got a doctor uncle, got the distant scary uncle that can get you a job and thats donald trump. Weve got the cool uncle that takes you to ball games and thats marco rubio and then weve got bad ask thats jeb bush. Nobody votes for dad, yes. But he did release the cracken over the weekend and bring barbara bush into New Hampshire so hes surging up a little bit but i think its going to be trump, kasich rubio. And this overkill on the rubio repetition has actually rallied some conservatives to his side as has the ted cruz overkill on the ben carson story. Because theres nothing like the sound of liberal media and democrats beating up on conservatives to rally people to them. I think rubios actually getting a little rebound after the pile on of the weekend. Rose yes but the pile on wasnt from liberal writers. Ly three minutes as you havedy. Suggested. But it seemed to be the topic of conversation because he seemed to have momentum. Ill give you an example. A very smart former governor of michigan was on cnn this afternoon and she brought it up and joyful with rubios decline. She also brought up ted cruzs canada thing, birtherrism from harvard law grad who knows better. They are trying to i think systematically sew discord but really take rubio out and take ted cruz out of the picture. I think they would like to run against a very weakened nominee who cannot energize young people against Hillary Clinton. Rose so in your judgment, this was a temporary hit that now is rebounding to marco rubios favor. Yes. Andfrckn what he did was, famoue in Chris Matthews book hard ball, probably the most important line in politics, hang a lantern on your problem. He leaned into his problem all day yesterday and today and explained what he had attempted to explain three or four times. But i think the reason he keep going back to it was he never completed, he got the 90 seconds and he wanted to say president obama has not failed because hes young so dont hold it against me because im young. President obama has destroyed what conservatives believe is the core of the countrys ethos because hes been successful. And he didnt get that out in 90 seconds or he kept trying to restart it to explain it. Christie being the able prosecutor and ive had him on so many times kept interrupting the witness. It was terrific theatre. Rose yes. But i mean you know what his argument is that obama wants to change america. He wants to change america with healthcare, oh my god. He wants to change america with an iran Nuclear Negotiation and deal, oh my god. I mean thats not exactly somehow changing the ethos of america. Well, the iran deal ill disagree with you on charlie. I noted on the Republican Debate we spent a lot of time talking about north korea and the Clinton Kerry policy with islamists end timers. It doesnt work. Its not like the soviet union which nixon arranged. On the other hand i do think that Bernie SandersHillary Clinton campaigns back and north over who is going to burn in hell for not supporting the first woman president is not the exactly the height of a policy debate. This is the inversion, you might agree with me. Republicans usually argue over personality and democrats over policy. This is inverted this year with the except of the rock em sock em robots donald trump. Rose talking about the rockbz em sock em robots why do you think trump is winning. Theyre a very independent minded state. They value that and he is thoughts anybodys creature. Rose lets go back to kasich for a second. Does anybody have the possibility now without thinking of any particular scenario of touching fire. Yes. John kasich does because again the wall street journal moll, the break down of the 400,000 New Hampshire people who are independent and can vote either republican or democrat tomorrow they havent made up their mind. The one overwhelmingly is john kasich. He appeals to the likability, lets work together, thats grow the country, Ronald Reagan instance sunny optimism sore he can get the lions share of the republican independentents and pull an felt. I dont know if he has enough time. The prediction along with rick wilson a suburb political consultant trump people hate him. Were going to have an open convention in cleveland. No will of one will have 1,027 delegates. The majority doesnt rule. Well have the greatest Political Convention in my lifetime. Rose is this somehow a wish over experience. Im not, because you know, they cant have a winner take all primary until march 15th. That means all sorts of delegates have to be divided up proportionately. They had one in iowa. She had a chip in cleveland. The more proportional results come in the harder it is and the more scattered the field. It will be a bunched up third, fourth and fifth place tomorrow night. The more empowered diversity of candidates on to carry on. Some people talking about Chris Christie getting out if he gets under 5 . No he wont. Hes got a couple of hedge fund guys. Hes got some play in new jersey and beyond. Hell pick up some votes in michigan on march 8th where he will duel. Rose how can they vote as aprimary. Since hillary is getting killed by bernie your vote has more value in pure economic theory terms if you cast it on the republican side. I think more independents will vote for republicans because they believe that Bernie Sanders is blowing Hillary Clinton out of the water. Theres a politico story tonight that hillary is about to fire all of her staff. So thats a fine of chaos. David act axelrod and hes awe pliedz to the Witness Protection Program now. I think if youre an independent voter and you wantm,satisfaction tomorrow. Rose because you know youre contributing to what . To a decisive moment. Whereas, the decision is already in in the minds of most observers on the democratic side. Bernies going to win, hes going to win by a lot. The republican vote matters a lot because second third fourth fifth. Ted cruz in the wmur poll, cnn poll was in third place. I was stunned by that because he got the lowest iowa bump than anyone ive seen because of the carson controversy. Maybe im wrong but i still think trump, kasich79 rubio tomorrow in that order with some decent separation. Rose what about ben carsons support especially among evangelicals. I think that is fading. I like dr. Carson a lot. Hes a guest on my show often and one of the nicest men in america. I was surprised he got 10 in iowa. I dont think he lost many votes if any because of ted cruz announcement although people can disbout that forever. I think people come to the conclusion that he will make a wonderful secretary of hhs or Surgeon General of the United States that he is not a participant in the first or second tier although hes going to soldier on as well because hes going to have some chips at the table in cleveland. Rose could he possibly endorse marco rubio. I dont have any idea which way he will go. Rose i was surprised that santorum endorsed but i dont understand the nature. Santorum because it makes m the most serious person a iran. Rose theres great great fault with marco saying the first day hes going to avoid the treaty with the nuclear deal. Well not me i would avoid it too. George pa taught key came out today and reiterated their support for marco rubio. I think theres a great divide in the country on the iran deal and i think its playing out in front of us on the north korea deal signed in 94 by the first clinton administration. It didnt work. Theyre just a crazy regime. The iranians are fanatical. Those of us who think the north korea deal in 94 was the disaster take the iran deal of 2015 and five forward five years and its a disaster. Rose bob gates had real qualms about the deal but he said for marco rubio to say on the first day to avoid the deal was a serious mistake. I recognize your right. Hes one of the people i disagree from. Only in the clarity of the mind in the people who is the republican nominee i want them to say that deal is dead. And mrs. Clinton who says she will embarrass it and work with it. The former secretary of state will have it both ways arguing she was in fact a proponent of sanctions but now is in proponent of the deal. Rose whats the basic divide in this election do you think between democrats and republicans. Foreign policy. It is i think going to be a Foreign Policy election. And there were news stories out tonight on isis planning attacks in five cities. The catastrophe that is under way with islamist radicalism is of great concern to the Foreign Policy wing of the Republican Party which actually brings together everybody. And does not seem to concern the full sweden, i think i used that term last election. Rose yes, you did. Bernie sanders, you know Bernie Sanders with chuck todd yesterday said he will be consulting with j street and lawrence quorum. And my job dropped. I said wow hes going to kill Hillary Clinton tomorrow. Rose yes but then they go to South Carolina. Things will probably even up. You know, that youth gap, the wall street journal. Rose i think thats the most fascinating thing in Democratic Politics is the youth gap. And young women. All bright is in New Hampshire saying for you not to vote for her is, you know, something next to terrible. I saw a grandmother and her granddaughter today. Because im stuck in a hotel in boston because of the snow term i cant do my radio show. So i ods, i got New Hampshire jitters. Its like drinking too much coffee but a grandmother and granddaughter both saying theyre voting for bernie even though the grandma had supported the former secretary of state eight years ago. The granddaughter because he doesnt want 80,000 in college debt. In other words she likes the sanders appeal and the grandmother because she said in so many words the server scandal will bring her down, the 22 emails will bring her down. For very Different Reasons grandma and granddaughter are voting for bernie. And if Bernie Sanders comes out and says one thing, he will make Elizabeth Warren his Vice President , he might turn South Carolina around. Rose wow. I hadnt thought about that. I wondered where sh u j and what she was doing and how much shes sitting somewhere in massachusetts saying why didnt i do it. Good reporters would go find her because she would be the nominee right now. If Bernie Sanders comes out and says, let me introduce my running mate, its game set match. Its a replay what yogi berra said dejavu. Rose he says i find the discourse extremely bainal and an outrage and insaturday to the voters. You are a very smart harvard educated lawyers. Do you agree with him. Yes. Its not been, i don le the 90 second rule in a debate. Ive done two and i have two more to do on february 25th. And i dont have makes the rules. I think its very hard. Yours is the only show on televisione[ where a segment gos this long. Rose but theyre scared of it arent they. Most of them are scared of long form conversation or not. I dont think so. I will do my website thing but i have listed off 153 interviews and i transcribed them all. They are hours, hundreds of hours of republican candidates asking questions they have no idea what im going to ask them about and they will talk at length and those, they try and steer it to their strength obviously. Chris christie is a very good courtroom lawyer so he knows how to bring it back to surveillance of terrorism suspects and post 911. Marco rubio brings it to the intelligence committee. Ted rust will talk to you all day long about his Supreme Court arguments and he will give you every minute of every one of those arguments because he has them memorized. Jeb bush will talk about reforming education in florida. Its fascinating, interesting. Ben carson will tell you about running the Neurological Department at johns hopkins. Its interesting. Rose let me ask you this about marco and the debate. However its playing out in New Hampshire. Donald trump is with us on cbs this morning program. He said look one time is interesting and understandable. The second time to evoke the same statement about obama changing the country is okay. The third time is becoming questionable. Fourth and fifth says something about the person saying it. Well okay. Donald trump is right but hes also a little bit wrong. Message discipline isdh the most important factor in a president ial campaign. Rose until you look stupid. Until you cross the line. What christie did was make him reset. Because you cant give the second part of that punch line. President obama did not fail because hes young, hes failed because hes a leftist thats the second part. If you keep getting interrupted in the 90 second bell and Chris Christie worked it expertly. Rubio got off the matt. He dominated the second half of the debate and in fact google searches on his prolife stance again for republican primary voters it matters a lot. His talk about what the three poles of conservatism were scored off the chart. I think we in the media have done tonal vision on those three minutes. I know 9 left loves those three minutes and hillary people are trying to knock rubio out of this and hes the one that scars them the most. Maybe he had