This special history in the history of the world. Rose separated by oceans. Obama doesnt believe that. He believes that our exceptionalism resides in two things. First, the unbelievable gift of becoming the essentially the brain child of a group of enlightenment era philosophers who developed a constitution. Number one. And number two, that we are a country that has advanced largely due to social movements of great importance. Rose and we continue with Sebastian Mallaby who has written about Alan Greenspan in a much praised book called the man who knew, the life and times of Alan Greenspan. Green span was extremely persuasive and comfortable in oneonone situations. But he was also shy and difficult i dent in group, he didnt like confrontation, he was frightened going directly to people with disagreement. We go around their backs. We leak to the press, be passive aggressive am but to prik a bubble, you had to be able to take on the entire Public Opinion am you had to say your 401 k is worth more than it should be and im going to bring down the value of your saveks. And i think he just didnt want to do that. His reputation imprisoned him. He was the maestro and didnt want to spoil that. Rose we conclude with kira pollack, editor of Time Magazine looking at the collection of the 100 most influential photos of all time. It is a virtual museum, there are a lot of layers, a lot of context, deep dives and there are 20 short documentaries about the pictures. David remnick, Sebastian Mallaby and the time collection 100 most influential photos when we continue. Funding for charlie rose is provided by the rose has been provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose we begin this evening with a look at president elect Donald Trumps meetings at the New York Times. Trump sat down yesterday with 23 of the newspapers reporters, editors and columnists for a wideranging on the record interview. The meeting had previously been cancelled by trump after a disagreement over ground rules. And then there were subsequently reinstated. Trump has not held a News Conference since his stunning win over Hillary Clinton two weeks ago. Throughout his Campaign Trump often directed criticism to the news media for what it perceived as its unfair coverage of him. Yet while he denounced the times earlier yesterday morning as a failing institution, he described the paper as a world jewel after his meeting. During the interview trump backed down from previousious vows to pull out of the Paris Climate Accord and investigate Hillary Clinton. He also claimed he had no legal obligation to step away from his Business Empire and said he did not want to energize White Supremacists. It was announced earlier today trump has chosen South Carolina governor nikki hailey to become u. S. Ambassador to the united nations, and also offered the post of secretary of housing and urban development to former republican president ial nominee ben carson. And bet see devos was named to lead the u. S. Education department 6789 joining me is frank bruni, a columnist for the New York Times. He attended yesterdays meeting. And i am pleased to have him here. Welcome. Thanks. Rose so you wrote about this today. And essentially, just you talked about his demand for love. I mean here you as a reporter, set the scene, give us a sense of what it was like. For starters, i think people if they had a video tape of it would be shocked at how cordial and respectful it was. He does have many i think or coverage of him has been correctly tough. But he came into the room and it was all very dignified. It was all very, you know, high minded. He said hello to everyone. He sat down, he did in his first sentences say that he thought the times had been as tough on him as any News Organization and he thought some of our coverage was so tough it was unfair. But once he got that out of his system, the rest of the meeting there were none of those recriminations. One of the things i found fascinating, why i talk about his demand for love is before we began asking him questions, when i think he went on for about eight minutes where the floor was his to do with what he pleased. And he went through yet again the size of his crowds, the states he won that no one thought he could win, how much more enthusiasm his rallies had than Hillary Clintons did. How well he had done with africanamerican voters, which wasnt even supported by the numbers. He misportrayed the numbers. And there was something about hes president of the United States now. Or he is president elect, excuse me. And this need to still convince us or impress us with the magnitude of his support. There was something very unusual about that. And it speaks to this insatiable quality in im. Nothing is ever enough. I think that is part of the story of whether elic which datesk divests whatever you want to call it, some of his businesses. I dont think he wants to because nothing is ever enough for donald trump. Rose and the fact that he was open to changing his position on several important things. Several, yeah. Rose what does that say to you . Well, first of all, we know that he said during this hour that he was open to changing his positions on those things. We have to see in time. Because one of the things i have noticed about donald trump, one of the things that i think creates an ongoing question about him is he wants to favor of the room hes in. So his tune adjusts ever so slightly and sometimes more than slightly depending on who his audience is. He wanted to walk out of that room with all of us saying hey, donald trump, maybe we underestimated him. So to us, he said his mind was open on Climate Change. To us he said. Rose and the connectivity, the word that he used, i think, of human cause. Right. To us, he said that he was rethinking water boarding and maybe it was unnecessary. And this is after many, many rallies where he practically promised to water board the world. Rose and suggested the reason it changed was one sentence from a man he had come to admire a lot and a man he may make his secretary of dense, general mattist without said you will get more done with a cigarette and a beer. Thats right. Rose than you will water boarding, or at least that is what reporting. And the reporting is accurate, that is exactly what he said. And i think was a fascinating moment that a lot of us at the times focused on and a lot of other people focused on because when donald trump said that general matis said i am not sure water boarding works, he said it as if its with a revelation. Donald trufer was campaigning for 18 months for president , was presumably or maybe not getting policy briefings, studying up on the issues. Rose and general flynn among others. He presented as if he had never considered the possibility that water boarding wasnt effective. There is this quality about him that is sort of an unformed piece of clay. And that may be is a source of great hope for his presidency. But its also a source of concern. Rose yeah, i mean i think some people who are smart in the ways of state craft have said the fact that he does not have that, maybe an advantage for him. Uhhuh. Rose maybe. It may be the question is, who has got his ear. And even more so, who is the last person who whispered in his ear. Rose indeed it is that, but also it does show that he is capable of listening. Yes. Rose you know. Listen, we see these people say the same thing, these people i mean candidates running for president. We see them say the same thing over and over again. Sometimes we see them take positions that seem utterly nonsensable and unwarranted to us. Most of these people are very, very bright people. Donald trump is a bright man. And that is a tool that he is going to have at his disposals as he begins to govern. What i think we dont know, really, and what we are still learning is what are his core principles, are there core principles. And when he actually gets into office and when is he throwing his weight behind legislation, whether he is signing legislation, what is that really going to look like, when the rubber hits the road, when its not just words, when its not just firing up a crowd and trying to get their applause, what is donald trump ultimately about. Rose yeah, two things too from my standpoint, having, you know, seen him, it is the notion of does he mean what he says and does he say what he means. It is affected by this notion, or its impacted by this notion, some of the people close toast him saying that everything is a transaction for him. Uhhuh. Rose everything is an opening negotiation. And so im intrigued by what are all those people who listen to him and thought he was going to do this, this and this are now beginning to realize hes not. Is it in the end overcome because they didnt take everything he said literally and they believed that he was an agent of change. Thats right. Rose and that was what was important to them. That i think you put your finger on something huge there. Which is everyone is waiting to see. Will the people further to the right hering that he no longer wants to prosecute Hillary Clinton, hearing that maybe he believes in Climate Change or he is willing to hearing about water boarding, hearing all of that stuff, are they going to freak out or as you say, were they looking for a change agent . Did they all realize there was a bit of theatricality to donald trump and he was saying things that maybe warrant core convictions he was following through on. How mucheeway does he have with that part of his constituency. And we want know that for some time to come. Because this stuff is still sinking in. Because he hasnt tully taken actions. If he has a lot of leeway from them, he may be able to, an maybe quite interested in moving to the center. And those of us who would like to sea him gov nern that more centrist reasonable way, i think, we need to be careful and make sure to praise those moves when they happen. Because this is a man without above all else, its really clear, wants add allation. And so maybe the way to mold him into the president you want him to be is to clap really loud when he moves in the direction you like. Rose but when you think of history there are lots of people who felt that way about adulation. I dont think anybody goes through what you have to go through to run for president if you are not a little bit of an adulation addict. But i think with donald trump we are looking at it to an exponential degree, it is adulation addiction on steroids. Rose the other interesting thing to me is you know, he said often that he was a winner, and that he wanted to win. Uhhuh. Rose so how does he define winning . Does he define winning as a subbing certificating successful presidency . And then how does he define, it if that is the route to winning a successful presidency, if that is his definition, how does he defeen the route to a successful presidency. Is it being, finding the center . Is it being able to compromise . Is it being able to listen . And change your mind . You know, were going to find out. Rose those are the questions, those are the big questions. We know one thing and its not a good thing. He defines winning in terms of polls. Have we ever met a political candidate let alone a president ial candidate who has mentioned and dwelled on polls with the frequent see. Polls and ratings. Right. So that is going to be a big part of it. Is he going to be watching his approval rating. And maybe we can all use that to the countrys advantage. Rose and so will the people who, there is a quote often used now, you know, that the people who voted for him did not take him literally but they took him seriously and the people who were alarmed by his possibilities took him seriously, took him literally but not certificate yusesly. I think thats a fair analysis, yeah. I think thats right. You know, hes our president nowment and hes our president elect. It is hard to keep building in that. And its interesting. I mean americans right now really, really would like to move beyond poip. They would really like to move beyond pat sanship. One of the polls showed Something Like 59 of americans think things might get better under a trump presidency. 59 . He had well above 50 in terms of people who were looking forward to a successful presidency, in terms of people who were who thought things might get better. I dont know that that he will look at that and think its about him because thats his nature. I think it says something about how hungry americans are right now, to rediscover some optimism and to make substantive improvements on things like infrastructure, et cetera. If he is earnest about being a good or even great president , i think he has, even after this horribly vicious campaign, i think he has a really interesting window of opportunity here. And i just really hope he seizes it. Rose there are extraordinary things. He is considering mitt romney as secretary of state. From what i seriously consider, in the beginning when those reports came out, i was hearing that is just windowdressing. But im hearing from reliable sources that it is a serious thing. By both people. Rose yeah, by romney and by trump. And i think that the seriousness of it, i think that was bolstered by the pick of Nikki Halle Haley for u. N. Ambassador. There is a lot of overlap between nikki halle and a roll nee. They are in the same box which are people who were very, very explicitly crit ctical and frequently critical of donald trump during the campaign. And this telegraphed in trump a generosity of spirit we didnt see. Rose and telegraphed the notion that he is aware that he cant just be he cant just be bringing too government talented white men. Well, more pornly, he cant just be bringing into government lap dogs. People who just are going to tell him how wonderful he is. He is now brought someone in shall. Rose which mitt romney clearly represents if he is chosen. I think its possible. We dont know but i think right now, it is within the realm of possibility. Rose did he talk about Infrastructure Infrastructure to the times. He did. Rose that is an interesting idea that seems to have it seems to have found its right and appropriate time. He did talk about it. And as he has at other times. And i think theres some hope there. I mean he may be able to get some stuff there that barack obama couldnt because barack obama was constantly butting heads with the opposing party in congress. And now you have republican house, republican senate, republican administration. So he may be able to make some progress on something that i think barack obama would have loved to make progress on but couldnt because of political infighting. Rose he clearly is a guy that, you know, hes not a reader. No, no, yeah. Rose he is a talker. Although he did there was a surprising amount of flattery in this et mooing am and he did make clear that he reads the times. He made a little swroak about if he didnt read the times he might have another 20 years of life left, but he, but i think its very limited. And you see that shall. Rose but those conversations mean something. Its not just that he is not a reader. When he delves into issues, you realize he is not massively well informed. Erudition are not his thing. There are echoes. I remember george w. Bush would not always dive deep into issues or seldom dive. Rose how about ronald reagan. They were men of gut, men of instinct. Reagan too, he was an ultimate del gator. Reagan is a little before my time, i dont want to but i mean i covered george w. Bush. Rose i didnt realize you were only 35. No, im 25. But i think donald trump is more in that vein. He trusts his gut, he trusts his dealmaking ability, whatever t he gets caught time and again not really knowing the nitty gritty of issues. Rose yeah. What else came out that struck you other than the need to be loved and the capacity to suggest he may change his mind on things . And the civility of it all . I would like to go back to the civility. That struck me. Because this meeting, of course, came a day after a bunch of you met with him. I know you cant talk about that. But there were many reports of him berating some of you, at least for a portion of the meeting. And having a very acrimonious tone at least for awhile. There was none of that in this meeting. And what i realized is donald trump does he may have railed about the elites in the course of getting elected. He may have come up with this very antielitist message that played very well in the heartland among certain voters. But at the end of the day, the truth of the matter, donald trump wants the respect of those very elites. He moves some what in the circles. And the man sitting in that chair at the New York Times, he wasnt con tempious of us. He wasnt pledging to defy us. He wasnt saying that he had a direct line to the American People that we never would. He was saying give me a chance. I think i can impress you all. Even when he wasnt saying that explicitly, that was the body language, the emotional tenor. And you realize hes not quite the rebel that he played on the campaign trail. People said to me who were close to him, friends, that the idea of beings a dises rupter was crucial to his Campaign Strategy. Uhhuh. Rose that means just the whole style of the thing, that he believed that what he had due seemed like a destructive because the constituency that he was trying to appeal to. Right. Rose wanted somebody to disrupt. Right. Rose and they wanted ssh to disrupt with no holds barred. Right. Rose go out there, and show us that you will stand up, that you are different and that you are not in anyway bound by traditional rules. Right. But the flip side of that coin, you are right. And it turned out to be the right Campaign Strategy because he is now the president elect. The flip side of that coin is when steve bannon came up in the meeting. And on