Theranos with John Carreyrou and Michael Siconolfi of the the wage wawj. She came out of stanford with this vision of trying to revolutionize medicine with blood testing that would be done on very small samples of blood, either priked from the arm, at first prked from the arm then priked from the finger and the test would be done quickly, off just this painless pin prik, and then you would be able to diagnose a bunch of conditions from that. And that was pretty transform tiff, if it was achievable, if the company could do it, it really meant big changes in medicine and in the Laboratory Testing industry. So the vision was a powerful one that a lot of people bought into. But again, the people who invested early knew they were facing a young lady who had just graduated and who might fail as most entrepreneurs in Silicon Valley failed. We conclude with amy adams. She spoke to a. O. Scott at the New York Times about her two new films, arrival and Nocturnal Animals. Im definitely hard on myself and work really hard but im so much more relaxed than i was when i started. Im not sure if that is reflected in the work or the characters are just more relaxed. But i feel more relaxed. And i love the stories that i get to tell. An i feel really grateful. Im in a really great spot as far as gratitude goes. And so i think i am able to approach things from a different point of view as opposed to feeling like im going to get found out. I think every actor talks about that feeling of getting found out. And now im sort of like well, if i get found out, well, its been a nice run, i guess. Syria, theranos and amy adams when at the continue. Rose fnding for charlie rose is provided by the following and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Good evening, charlie is traveling on assignment, im jeff glor of the cbs news, we begin with the battle over aleppo which has been described as oneu n official as a quote di sent into hell. Earlier today the Security Council held an emergency meeting to discuss the humanitarian dises as ter there. Civilians are fleeing by the thousands as the a sad regime continues to launch air strikes on eastern aleppo. The syrian president has vowed to take all of the city and its forces have made raped inroads since saturday. Aleppo is the oppositions last urban stronghold. Seizing it would signal a huge victory for the a sad regime. Joining me now from washington is richard fontaine, is he president of the center for new american security. Also ambassador james jevvrey, he is a distinguished fellow at the Washington Institute for near east policy. Im pleased to have both of them on this program. Gentlemen, welcome to you. Richard, if i could, let me start with you. At this moment where is aleppo . Well, aleppo is in dire straits. The a sad regime in the assad regime in coordination with the Russian Air Force and some of the iranian support on the ground has been launching a months and months long offensive that is coming to freuician. Now parts of eastern aleppo where the opposition was have fallen. And people are fleeing the city or just trying to hunker down under these really intense air strikes that both are launching there. And so assad hopes to seal up or fall into his hands in the coming days or weeks. Jim, is this the turning point . This is the turning point, not just for the war in syria but for what is going on below the surface in the middle east which is an iranian grab by power enabled since last area by putin without very much pushback by the United States. And that is the underlying problem that has us all, and people in the region really scared right now. We can and they can properly credit russian influence for this . Absolutely. Richard, theres been a lot of talk about the new administration and what impact they have on this. I know that secretary kerry i think has been trying to broker some sort of lastminute deal before the Current Administration leaves. Im not sure what interest the russian presidency has in making a deal now when they can just wait for the next administration to come in. But what does that incoming january administration mean . Well, first on secretary is kerrys efforts, the motive is admirable but he has no real leverage to work with. And this is coming at a time when both the russians and the assad regime believe theyre winning, not losing. So their appetite to stop fighting is going to be approximately zero. So im afraid that that is very unlikely to go anywhere. The next administration then will come into office having inherited an assad regime with Russian Support that is on the march, but without the man power necessary to retake the entire country, at least not without importing literally thousands of fighters from iran. And so there will be pockets of isis and pockets of the opposition outside major urban areas left. And the administration is going to have to make a very early decision about how to treat assad and how to treat the opposition, whether to continue to support the opposition and try to see the eventual departure of assad or not. So far the Incoming Administration and donald trump in particular have shown great skepticism toward the opposition. Absolutely. His focus has been on fighting isis. Thats what his base is concerned about. Its an important goal. Its something we should do. In fact we should do it in a more aggressive manner than we are right now in mosul but its not the most serious threat to us in the region. That threat comes from iran, backed by russia in an effort for iran to develop a regional and for russia as part of its overall effort to overthrow the post world war ii order. So an enormous amount has been made of the relationship or not or discussions or not between the president elect and the russian president. I wonder about what you what you expect from the relationship between the next administration and iran. I would say that if President Trump thinks he can cut a deal and split the world with vladimir putin, putin is going to disappoint him very, very quickly and if the president then doesnt pifout he will preside over the biggest disaster in American Foreign policy and boy thats saying a lot, since 1945, so those are the stakes right now. Richard . Yeah, and if i might just add to this, i think the danger here is that in fact with some degree of good faith, the new administration will try to cut some kind of deal with russia in order to team up against isis, perhaps with or without the assad regime that is very unlikely to lead to any sort of success both because of russia but also because the continued civil war in syria drifen by assad and the russians is derifing the forces that lead to extremism in isis. And so we should not be in a position where we are giving concessions to the russians only to have them be either unable to deliver or simply pocket them and disappoint us. In terms of the time frame for how long the eastern portion of aleppo might have left, where do you believe were at . This is a question of weeks before the assad forces particularly backed by iranian and hezbollah infantry and russian air attacks are being to overrun the place. Theres no doubt there have momentum right now. They seized over a thrd of the city in the past five days. And i see the end very much in sight for aleppo. Jim, if basha bashar all assad is able to survive and extend his administration indefinitely, what sort of a country does he preside over . He will be presiding over a country that will become an essential vassal state of iran. I sound like i keep harping on this but it is what everybody in the region tells us at the highest levels when we go out there. Aleppo is gee graphically important as well because it links to the kurdish syrian areas in the north of the country and they link in turn to areas of iraq where iran is expanding its own influence. So you will have a corridor between iran and aleppo down to damascus, becca valley into the hezbollah areas of lebanon and the mediterranean. This is a strategic game changer. Iran and russia will prop assad up and continue to support him in fighting the insurgence, perhaps eventually fighting isis in order to preserve this geo strategic trump that they have. You bring up iraq as wellment how does this factor in. Iraq is part of the Overall Campaign if the region. Eye raj iraq is focused on fighting isis. For the moment that has unified everyone. Iran, the various iraqi factions and the United States and the coalition. As soon as mosul is overrun by Coalition Forces that will take some time, there will be a reckoning in iraq where iran will try to play its hand and the United States will have to decide once again as in syria, as in yemen, as elsewhere, are we in this game, are we going to watch . Richard what is next in mosul . Well, the fighting there is likely to continue for several months. Its been become kind of a bloc by bloc approach where the Coalition Forces are moving in. But the isis individuals who are hunkered down in the city would rather fight to the death than to flee out into the desert and be captured. In addition to a number of ieds and booby traps and things like that. So it is slowgoing in terms of the fighting. I think it will fall to the Coalition Forces. And the big question becomes what is next. What is the day after look like. And the Iraqi Government is still mulling over plans for exactly how mosul will be governed. You have the Iraqi Security forces active there. You have shia militia, the upon lar Mobilization Forces that are deployed not too far to the west. You have a kurdish con tinning ent up there and you have american advisors. And you have turks in the area as well. And everybody wants to have a say in what comes next and it hasnt been sorted out precisely what does come next. Iraqi leadership gave some interviews this week where i think they indicated they suspect that the Incoming Administration will provide them more Logistical Support in their fight against isis. Do you, richard, to you first, do you suspect thats the case as well . Well, i certainly hope so. Its been hard to parse exactly what the new administration is going to do on any of these Big Questions of syria or isis or iraq. There are the statements that the president elect made on the campaign trail. But you have to contrast this with some of the folks with Extensive Knowledge of the region and experience there who may be coming into some of the Foreign Policy positions of leadership. So its unclear precisely what will be on offer to the iraqis. But certainly strengthening the Iraqi Security forces and having the United States be more politically relevant in iraq and not creeding the political influence to iran is going to be an important part of that successful strategy over the coming months. Jim, the president elect on the campaign thrail talked about seizing some soil production from iraq as payment for the help that has been provided by the United States. Is that a realistic scenario at all . No, and i dont think he thinks it is a realistic scen ar yovment he has as richard pointed out real decisions to make. I think he can make them and will make them concerning isis in iraq. This is easy to up our game there. Make of how different candidates might affect both of the countries and the entire region that we are talking about here. Most importantly, the president determines Foreign Policy, in part because he or she is the president , in part because many of the tools, economic and defense dont reside in the state department. Secondly the most important thing is the president needs someone he can trust to be the secretary of state. Beyond that, experience, background, temperment, those are all important. But those first two characteristics really are to be focused on. We talked a lot about iran here. Its impossible to discuss the region without. But the president elect as well has talked about the nuclear deal and enormous amount. What might you expect from the administration on that . Well, the president elect is suggested that he will walk away from the deal or tear it up, in some way. Which at this point into the deal having already given the iranians a significant amount of sanctions relief, not just from the United States but also from our negotiating partners, we by walking away would be relieving iran of the continued nonprolive raise obligations that its made in the course of the deal. And i suspect that when they take a look at this, they will look instead of starying up the deal, at better ways to insure there is enforcement in terms of the deal, very strict enforcements, penalties for violations of the deal and also this bigger question that in some ways weve been talking about throughout this segment which is how do you deal with all the other nonnuclear mall ian activities that iran is engaged in in the region particularly in iraq and syria. What is the american policy to push back against those. Jim, from what you have been able to gather, is there any sort of a trump sort of Foreign Policy doctrine . Certainly its to make america strong. Theres a lot of support for that i think that is his instinct. Secondly, to listen to military leaders once he finds military leader hes comfortable with, and he will. And thirdly, to fight terror and that certainly is something that we need to do. But how we fit into the far bigger problems are Global Security that we have been dealing with since the second world war, i dont see the outline of a trump policy so far. But there will be one, im sure, one or another sort. Reu67d, same question to you. Jim is right. I think the president elect is drawing a rather narrow view of Americas National interest, protect against terrorism, so forth. But there are a number of forces that are connected to that. So in order to fight terrorism, the United States is going to have to do more than just target terrorists. Its going to have to be involved to some degree in the politics of the region. Its going to have some presence in the middle east and so forth. More broadly speaking, globally, the president elect during the campaign sketched out a view of this sort of broader International Order that showed americas getting a raw deal of some elements of this, bad trade deals. Alliances where we pay too much in our allies enjoy too much protection. Things like that, why do we have to step up instead of local forces around the world and so forth. You know, how he approaches americas set of responsibilities and then tries to turn those into benefits for the people who put him into office i think will be the key Foreign Policy question for his administration. Jim, how long does it typically take for the, we talk about the doctrine or philosophy, whatever it is, to play itself out in an Incoming Administration . First of all, it is shaped to some degree by the individuals picked if they have the president s confidence. Secondly, its shaped by events on the ground. The best example is how 9 11 shaped and changed george w. Bushs worldview. And thirdly, its based upon where the president eventually wants to bring this country at the end of his four or eight years. James jevvrey, ambassador james jevvrey and richard fontaine, president for the center for new american security, we appreciate both of yufer time tonight, thank you. Thank you, thank you. Elizabeth holmes set out to revolutionize the blood Testing Industry when she founded theranos in 2003 at the age of 19, by 2015 the biotech startup was valued at 9 billion making her the worlds youngest selfmade billionaire. In just a few short months it all began to unravel. Last fall an investigative report published in the wall street journal revealed significant cracks in theranos. Calling into question the accuracy and legitimacy of the companys technology. Since then the company has come under federal criminal probes, including whether it mislead investors. Elizabeth holmes has also been banned from the blood Testing Industry for at least two years. Joining me now are John Carreyrou and Michael Siconolfi, they are both from the wall street journal, the team that has covered this story from the beginning. Im pleased to have both of them at this table, welcome, gentlemen. This has been 13, 13 months of reporting in the journal but longer than that, actually looking into theranos. So john, let me start with you. When did you first get an indication that something might be amiss . So there was a new yorker piece in december of 2014, a profile, a long profile of Elizabeth Holmes. And that piece both put her on my radar. She had gotten a fair amount of press, but i hadnt paid much attention until i saw that story. And in addition to putting her on my radar just in general, there were a couple of passages that i thought were strange in that piece. I had done an investigative reporting about health care for most of the past decade. And having a fairer amount of experience, there were some passages that seemed off to me. I probably