And by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and Information Services worldwide. Captioning sponsored by Rose Communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. Rose these men and women lived important lives. They enriched our culture through their inventions, their art and their enterprise. They appeared over the past 25 years of this program and we take a moment this evening to appreciate them. It kind of catapulted me into a status that i dont think i would have achieved had i continued doing r b and pop. So its a little bit you know. Rose would you have just been known as a jazz artist. Orr b pop artist. So now im singing with pass i hado domingo and jose car eras and getting offers from all over the world to perform for royalty and getting invited even to social events. And people wanted to meet and look in the face of and it was like i got this whole new audience of people who didnt know anything about what i did before. Rose how much of it do you think was the album per se and what you did with the due et and how much. I think 90 of it was the album, no question. I think what this album did was it its like a reawakened something in a lot of people that thought this music was pretty much gone. They would have to pull out their old records if they wanted to hear it again. They certainly werent going into the Record Stores any more because this kind of music wasnt selling. And between radio and musicians that were performing, i mean, so many of them said thank you. Youve given us work again. Rose yeah. I close my book out with this and i tell this story. The last page of the book. I had gone down to the courthouse in washington to be sworn in to the d. C. Bar. I was with a law firm and i wanted to be a member of the d. C. Bar. When i went through the metal detector at the courthouse, the court houses are almost like airports now with all the equipment. When i went through that, when i went through that thing i set it off. And hi been looking down and suddenly i looked up and this big africanamerican man, about 6 feet 3, 6 feet 4 was looking at me and he had a scanner in his hands. And i thought he wanted me to spread eagle so he could scan me because hi set the metal detector off. And he looked at me and he said senator bumpers. And i said yes. He said i cried when you said you werent going to run no more. And i said you know, that may be the kindest, most gratifying thing anybody ever said to me. And he stood there for a full 10 seconds, i guess. He said would you tbif me a big hug. I said i would be delighted to give you a big hug. We embraced for about five seconds and i went my way. And i wanted to say to my father, you were right. That one experience made it all worthwhile. When i conduct in these different places, people always say well, you know, french orchestras have their own style, chinese orchestras have their own style. Dont believe that. I try to change that style immediately to be a veen ease star, to be a mall arian style. So when i finished in beijing after 11 rehearsals they offered me, you would not have confused this orchestra with the Vienna Philharmonic but you would have thought maybe it was an austrian orchestra, so i believe maller has his own language and that is what i learned over the years more than anything else. How do we get that language expressed but at the end of the day, you know, you bring your own life to this music. The music is so emotional and i dont think you can get a great performance if you simply follow all these endless de details. You must bring yourself to it and although im often credited with coming the closest to following what is in the score, i should, i probably know it better than anyone else, which is not bragging. I spent 20 years studying one score. I still feel at the end of the day i conduct a very idiosyncratic performance as people will hear moneyed night. Markets go up, markets go down. I think there is too much emphasis on the scandals as driving the market down. There are other factors including the terrorist, potential terrorist attack, the fact that the economy doesnt appear to be growing as fast as we would have thought. There are other factors out there. Regional factors in terms of weather and the like. But it is a fact that people are concerned about it. Youre right, half of the households in this country own equity. People follow the market. Many people trade online. And thats all a positive thing. But i think most people are staying with the market. The individual investor despite all of the bad news is staying in the market. I think thats the important part to recognize. Dont look at my personality. My personality is not important. For me the important is what you do, you compose, you write, all the music performed. I can accept that. Because certainly i am, you know, i have a vision which is necessary if you want to do music. You have to have a and give you a vision of things. I mean i never objected to that. I never i was never point of view at all. Simply from the organization of music, of what i think is the music which is important and music which is less important, then i give my taste. Are you not obliged to go with it. But i cannot really give me opinion. You are going very strong. You said you were just with the Vienna Philharmonic but are you approaching your 75th birthday, the year 2 thousand, correct . Yes, absolutely. What would you like for the musical legacy to be. Well, i would like for me, thats not so much the performances. Performances are transyent. You know, thats just something that happens and are you happy sometimes. But i mean thats not the main thing in my life. I would like my workshop, i mean i think that the desire is very common to all artists. When the worst was over, i felt that it was extremely necessary that those who died from mental illness, which was my brother died, my mother died by her own hand. I felt that they should be eulogized, that they should not be forgotten and that their illness should be put to some use. Rose and you dedicated it to your father. Yes, yes, i did. Rose why . Well, because he was incredible survivor. He he managed to become a very successful lawyer and to work in sports and to love music and to love art. And to live his life almost in spite of it all. And though he was, is a very opinionated man, he none the less breathed life, forced the breathe of life into me. And therefore i surviveed. When i graduated from college, my burning ambition was never to be a lawyer or a judge. Rose you wanted to be a reporter. I wanted to be a reporter, yes. I thought i would be a great maker and shaper of world opinion. That is really what i wanted to be. I had, i looked a long time for a job. Couldnt find one. It was very, very hard. I think i traveled the whole eastern coast. Rose to find a job as a reporter. To find a job as a reporter. And i finally did take a job in des operation at a little newspaper in union city, new jersey, as a social reporter. And i always described myself as a failed journalist because i went to law school only to get on the news side of the news paper. But i found that being in law school was lots of fun. Rose what is the difference today in terms of a young woman going to law school and the time that you entered law school, how many years ago that was. I went to law school as well, and to duke law school. I think we had five, six, seven women in my class. Maybe the same for you. Today my guess is its 50 or more. I went to law school 35 years ago, New York University law school and i believe i was one of about ten women at the time. I started in the Evening Division because i was so still hanging on to that dream of being a great reporter. And i moved very slowly into the ambition to be a lawyer. We were few women in those years. Many, many men and youre quite right. Today the numbers are probably close to 50 , and in some law schools, more than 50 . So i think the situation is quite different in law school. Its quite different in entry positions in the legal profession. Im not sure things are all that different at the upper reaches of the profession. I think my ideal more is a synthesis, rather than anything else. I quite have always liked the idea of the cybernetics of our culture. The way that you can draw several strands together and create a new thing. I hope and believe that what i do is more of a creative thing in that way. That i think its fine to draw from opera or from the visual arts, from the underground, from mainstream. And just produce a new blend which is probably a more complete way of describing the way that we live. And creating a creating a sense of the cultural spin by amalgamating all these different threads. Thats it, isnt it. Thats what its all about. Rose one of the things that people have always said about you is you keep an eye on what is going on with what is new. I cant take my eyes off them. Its, you know, i really, i have got an incredible an tight for what we do. And how we do it and how we express it. And ever since i was a kid i always want to know whats out there. I always want to know whats happening. Rose do you think of yourself first as a musician . No, no, actually i find the idea of having to say that im a musician in anyway is an embarrassment to me. Because i dont really believe that. Ive always felt that what i do is i use music for my way of expression. I dont believe im very accomplished at it. And i give a little sigh of relief every time that i come up with something which sounds whole and complete and sort of functions as a piece of music. And fortunately it does seem to be there all the time. I never seem to go dry when it comes to writing music. But i dont feel like a musician rose mollier and shake speers only wrote about life. This was their mandate, just life. And the curiousness, the strangeness of this experience that we all share, you know. But what we and mollier, of course, dealt in obsession. People with obsessive people. And but i think that what it says in another way is that new york and indeed the United States, our country, as i told you before, ive lived here for 35 years. And the most disgraceful aspect of our culture is that there is no national theater. Its heartbreaking for somebody like me. Because i would be there all the time. Rose yeah. But there isnt a company like the Royal Shakespeare company in england or the British National theater. Can you tell me why that is. Rose i was going to ask you, you know more about that. Why is it . Because people in washington are a pathetic. Rose about a repertoire. To the soul of this country. Because thats what it is to do. Theater is to do with, you know, its food for the soul. These classical plays, this is why they are classical plays, because they mean something. And they have meant something to every generation since they were written. Its not because, you know, people are forced to learn them in school. Its because theyre dense with meaning. To our lives. There is a lot of pressure to have some kind of public image in whatever your job is. I think thats one of the great things about being an actor. It is at your per toil lose touch with the child in you. You have to almost be in touch with everything as part of you to be a great actor, right. Thats part of the genius is that they are in touch with all of their feelings, emotions. Yeah, hopefully, physically, head to foot, every emotion and things that you dont even know about. But very much your innocence. Is that a learned thing or is that show intuitive and there . I think its both. Its like, its learned in the sense that im a great believer in training for actors. And so when you go to drama school, if you are fortunate enough to have great teachers, and i was, there is a painful process where they take you apart before putting you back together again. And i was very nervous about training, oh, its just a sausage factory and theyll turn me outlining everybody else. But thats not it. They actually the acquisition of something called technique is really something that is there to serve your imagination. And to get rid of your bad habits which get in the way of making your own unique imaginative response to a text, and connect to an audience. People collect things, it is essential because if you have a wide range of curiosity for people and different milieus and dimp worlds and you give and receive hospitalities in places, of course you have to have what you might call a network of acquaintances and friends it is therefore important if you want a group around you, but you do so in certain numbers. You cant do it one by one, you have to have more than 365 days in the calender. But that all sounds pretty selfserving. Rose but it is. It is a thing genuine, in reconciling and to bring people together, sometimes just like bringing you together with somebody who you might not think at a moment would give interest to you and you have made a new friend. Its casting, isnt it. Rose. It was like somebody else passes a baseball or tennis. Rose thats it, in fact. You say that the idea of interesting conversation with people who have something to say is your sport and your entertainment for you. Precisely. Its absolutely. I love the idea of having different people from Different Countries together, find the similarity, study the way they speak. The again yality, the mannerisms. We have to learn to speak that way. If is that sort of thing, that is so interesting about people. The constitution is a legal text. Its why it is discussed in this book on interpreting legal text. Nothing in the document says that the Supreme Court will be the last word on what it means, at least in normal times. The reason we have become the last word is set forth in mar burry versus madison. Marshal says this is a legal text. Judges always have to treat the situation where legal texts con tra dect one another. Where the contradiction is between two statutes says john marshal, the more recent statute prevails. It has impries italy the older one. But where the conflict is between a statute and a superstatute, the constitution. Rose a canon. The constitution must prevail. So thats our approach to the constitution is the same as our approach to statutes. You start with the text, its lawyers work. Its not politicians work. Its not sewsiol guests work, its not economists work. Its the work of interpreting, giving the fairest reading to a text. Without which democracy doesnt work. I mean, you know, the only way you can have democracy in an extensive nation is through its laws. And if you dont give those written laws the meaning that they were understood to have by the people who adopted them and more importantly by the people to whom they were promul gated, democracy doesnt work. It was strained by 15 years of dealing with the foreign of my country. And during the very difficult negotiation with the israeli and we conclude the peace treaty. Rose in camp david. In camp david. So but i was attracted by the job because of the end. Cold war. And the possibility to do something through this organization. The first year i was very optimistic because i was able to first of all i was lucky to have a summit meeting january 92 and they asked me to prepare a position paper on Peace Keeping, peace making, preventive diplomacy. And it was a success. But the second year i discovered that there was a fatigue of the member states, and their action was a kind of cycle. There was less interested in Peace Keeping operation. There was less interesting to provide the equipment. They dont want to get involved in different Peace Keeping operations all over the world. The setback in somalia can be one of the reasons. The setback in certain parts of former yugoslavia. But i believe the simplest explanation is a fatigue. A fatigue. Yes. How do you overcome that. This is what you are trying to do. You are trying to show that we will be confronted by global problems. And for the time being there is only one foreign who can help the International Community to solve the global problems. By global problem, i say a problem cannot be solved by one or two countries. We need the Natural Community environment. It cannot be solved. They need International Community. Very few people realize that bill dwier, the Sports Editor of the ally timed, when i told him, i said they used to have a separate championship along with cricket club then they came to new york to play the singles championship. Very few people remembered that, and they decided when open tennis came in to put them together as the u. S. Open, try to emulate wimbledon but it never really worked. The doubles has not get enits fair share of time. I got my start on pbs as you, doing the u. S. Doubles championships in boston. When nobody was doing tennis on pbs. Nobodiment and people loved it. They thought doubles, my gosh, the action is faster, theres more to it playing doubles. It is a different game from singles. But it just cant and older people come up to me and say why cant we see doubles on television any more. And i say because the commercial networks are convinced nobody likes them. Rose i am with them too. A and dont like it and dont like to play it. That means are you not a thinking mans tennis player. Rose exactly what it means. Play it out here on the table, rose cant play doubles. Rose cant play doubles, doesnt like it. My mom said you are a lousy writer, son. And i said thats very kind, mom. I like critics who say that, but usually you dont hear your mother say it and she says there is a reason for it. In this book you wrote that santini was pot we are in this house. I was pot we are. He had his strengths, his brutality, but i reigned. I ruled because i knew that power was sub terrainian. I knew how to make that house hum and work. Are you not a good enough novelist to catch that. Rose she did not live to see the prince of tides published. Thank god, no. She did not. Rose she would not have liked it. She would not have liked that particular portrait of the mother, there is no question en she asked me if i was writing about i simply lied and said i wasnt. Rose but when she was dying she said i know youre going to put everything in your damn book. And she was correct. And you know, mom said. Rose didnt say damn probably. Mom was correct in that i think my mother knew that i was sitting there at her death bed, recording everything she was saying. So i moo mother was good. She played the character. My mother liked lady macbeth. She delivered sol il key quoo sol il quee from her death bed, her philosophy of life. To try to shape the portrait eventually i would portray of her death. Being a former c. E. O. In a similar business, you say well, what does this mean to chase, morgan, and what do