Transcripts For KRCB Frontline 20111216 : vimarsana.com

inte i hardened terrorists. were essen@ to do. not one single immineat was f to g@history tog@ tell what i believe is theg@ and in our sec..g@ 53 people were wrongly labelror@ the war on terg@g@t tog@ ing@vestigat line.g@ w terrorists, which is absur leve@ g@ these two st special edition of g@g@g@g@bsg. thg@ank you. g@ublic bro g@ t,g@ant, and peaceful world.g@ g@tigativeguardian ofg@ unding is providedg@on,teningg@c g@ fund, su reporting and eng@ journalismg@g@ g@ g@g@g@g@g@g@g@g@g@g@ smi 2000.g@ g@g@ brooklyn briiving to the office. and i g@got to the office fast@ >u.s. navy warsg@hip. g@ attacked in yeg@ smith: soufa@ how soon did you go to y sg@ame day. g@ smith: spokeg@ eight, nine, sog@ e.g@ing on al qaeda?g@ smithg@: soufan w g@vestigator for the uss that s soufan therg@e in a meen@ louis freeh.g@g@you began the i@ how do you ene.e do youg@ g@ people w g@g@ and you start builg@of wg@hat ai through a series of detailedatik g@nners. g@g@ of evidenceyond t@ g@g@rcive college in rural pennsylvania.:@ he only g@appl a dare from g@ g@two years lag@7. he brog@ugg@ at the time, osama bin ladeng@s. g@pervisor, an up wg@ and it was about tg@ bin lag@den will cause for theg@ th his og@wn al qaeda obsession, immediatesoufan unde@ by the time heg@ so anyoneg@ g@ g@s in cases like these ig@ g@thg@g@ g@g@ sometimes, it is.trg@ied to bast itg@g@ g@u something, he needs to havel g@ in operativg@e named g@knowledge andills to get insi@ ang@ would know so much about g@oug@that. he told me, i saw you in kandahar.you. g@ smith: soto kandahar, but af@ qg@uso provided significant e cog@and g@his knowledge about t g@ p about afghan g@ smith: during one s quso mentioned a named tag@ormer bodyguard ofa bl qaeda g@ the very logical questi when ig@s khallad?g@ime in bangs g@eliver but had been planning th attack in yemen, why have b bangkok?g@ many questions c we thought mayplanning to do so@ soufan hoped they could help fill in someg@ blanks, tel g@ did you lear g@at hg@ad gone on? g@g@ theg@ wall. inely, the jus@ ear. g@ the time g@ nesg@ of the time period tha this interpretation thatg@ intelligence cannot be sha with peog@ple who are work criminal investigations.g@g@we @ it didn t g@ g@soufan would continue to u more details, ing@he bangkokad @ dog@ g@ number yeah..in kuala lumpur. smig@th: do yo thg@: and they said?g@ smith: they saig@es did you go back to the about it?e talked about it a log@ times. g@t doesn t exist.g@ it s a teletype that goesg@g, 20g@01.g@g@g@g@ g@g@hought the.cole his cole him g@ he pg@ wg@g@ g@rson from the g@ow, call youo stay in yemen. g@g@g@omebody put a knife, you know, in me.g@ i was like, quso?g@ how g@the heck quso is invol what just happ whatg@ what didg@ g@ cau so ig@ss, andssy, andg@g@ smia g@ the cia person on the surveillance photos taken at ai@ 9/11 planning meeting ing@ t malaysian cag@ the cia the men was khallag@d.g@ soufan took th and he said, thd g@ another g@my answer was, how many order to knog@w how m@ so wg@ g@ quso. obviously, iwe know what he loo. this is definitely kg@ smith: khallad was linked t frg@om m two g@ from there, mihdhar and hazmht s angeles. nowg@money.g@th: so you re lt yg@eah. al midhar wig@g@g@g@ g@g@.g@mith: how did. how didu g@ g@thatg@ information had how would itake.g@ oh, th erent today.g@g@ i m convinced.g@ g@ would be very different.g@you would g@have pua g@ack ferent things.g@g@ose guys like white on g@ fact, the 9/11t , alg@eventedf the cia to sharg@ a possible early detectionlot.g@ absmigration at l.a.ep.g@ smig@th: the cia de@ styg@hare critical lead g@information with t g@ shared?g@ counsel at any legal reason.g@ ow andg@ what i.ember, there l impediment to shg@ information hy it wasn t shared? i don tg@ know. reason not to share it.g@ smith: so whemissionof ag@ mystery as to what happeneg@ well, i mean, i dheseg@g@ g@ there was.g@g@g@ they had passed it, or tg@g@ but, you know, in myg@ lcareer,@ kind of slip-ups or glitches occug@ll intent on. ong@ unfortunately g@do hg@ smith: a@ his trail went cold. g@t a few monthsg@ lg@g@ the man taken into custo g@lieved zayn al-abidin mg@ otherwise kng@ soufan was cso, in 2002, you gg speak to an g@g@?g@ yes. was involved in a series ofg@ plots to attack g@acg@k the popy g@of an g@ g@e interrogation remains avers@ classified. in your book, pronouns i , wg@e fact thatg@ myself and steve gg@siong@from . g@ ve g@ smith: bug@t g@ smith: when soufan arrieen ss rs from wag@shington were,not a@ they washington, d.c., to basicallyg@ overg@ we continug@d his medical situatg@er comforted zubaydahg@ his wounds.is g@bedding and cled and both stev deveg@lodah. smith: ang@d acco revealedg@uding identifying the, khalled a supervisg@or. sh g@ qaeda. and immediately af and g@he was totg@ he said, g@g@ smith: abu zug@bative plot which led to the arr qaeda figure in clig@eved abu so they broug@force psychologistg@yg@ill technicall@ .g@ i cannot confirm or dal s na, sh so ig@ descrg@ tell me the g@ b headway with abu zubayg@g@pinion about hog@w tog@ interrogatiowe said, what s yo@ and he startg@ smith: and g@ yeah. sg@loud rock music? smith: so there wasg@ contractor. this psychol yel ofg@ and i was re because i thg@ anywhere. i mean, this guyut islamic exg@tremisand here he il the shots on one of in the nation s hig@story.im?g@@ and i think i was arrogant.ou know, it was @ had you done, upg@ detainees?g@ oh, my god.i mean, i. guantan@ i g@g@ smith: how many had he ze@ abu zubaydah, it turg@ interrogg@ somethg@ing done, certaig@25 years of my ag@ thg@g@g@ g@ detainees g@thic, remorseles killers possible infg@ormaabok smithg@: with by, boris started to ewith slegw g@he complained tog@ordered g@ but boris continued.g@ department approved en harsher.@ g@shoving,onfinement ing@ was any actiong@ or any gainedg@ after boris a actionable intelligeg@significa@ before, wheng@g@t you being listened to? know.g@ i would like to give ag@ things, a g@ theo g@ idea. smith: evg@g@ khalid sheikhhiri.g@g@ again: with abu zubaydah, 83 g@ g@hammedg@ you repeat a tactic @ because if it need to do it 183@ work. it was a goodg@g@run, it was smith: and mag@de us nce was@ derive valuable intelligence s g@spute aboug@t that.he interrod on hardened terrorisefforts had@ g@o approvedthe use of eg@nhancd interrogatio deg@fend t g@ anyone who sugg blunt,g@produce an enormous amot g@g@ guantanamo g@ 2002 at the us g@g@ successes.g@ confession froal-bahlul and ham@ of theay.g@ cameg@tary interrogators who, le g@e cia, were exploring methods@ g@shor about tg@ two days, he ug@as meant to be the 20g@g@ later, he was taken away fg@rdsl weeks.g@access to arced to stri@ and made to wear a leash andg t. he suffered g@s hospitalized wih g@ slowg@programsg@ leaked into publg@ by 2004, the cg@ an internal reogram.g@ conclug@g@ that one nt threat g@was stod that s very soufan says thatg@g@ nhancedg@rrogation teg@chniques@ g@srespect to g@a lot of informn zubaydah, fr detainees who were subg@jeg@ again, w g@ g@ and to this day, i tg@ i belig@t ve happened, becauseg@ we re the most hardened, the mg@ d have succumbg@ed to a normalp@ g@ provided.by allg@ leave the fbi in 2005.g@9, he dk out. from my eg@ strongg@se what has become techniques.g@ g@before a senate committeeand n technig@qu these tecg@hniquesn operational slg@ow, and harmful g@ defeatl qag@ don t know whethers dig@ smith: al-libi was an al g@qaeda g@ in 2001, he cooper with fbi ig@a g@ libi w hi g@administratiisg@ ing@tet you re heavily critic i heard abou things. some of the about isg@ sg@ of the thi g@ibn sheikhg@ macho interrogation this ig@ he admitted that al qag@eda g t@ g@ evg@ll went to theg@h.g@an tracd g@training in these to iraq, af@ found out that there ig@ound ou@ sheikh al-libi and tg@ committeg@id you lie? t you want to hear.g@ absolutel i want theg@ too hear. smith: but the consequens of that.g@d is different.g@ look at all the blood that w g@lost in iraq. look ag@bout how theg@g@ it s tragic,g@ tragig@g@g@ advising governments andrld. g@ debate.g@ a debate about how war on tg@ g@at hg@eg@terrogation technique because of their cru i oppose them mag@cause ig@know@ individuals. smith: woulg@d yt if it wasbelieve. look, if@ g@ saving lives, i hate to tellg@t, g@th: yes, maybe?g@g@ but if sg@om andg@ saving lives in thg@g@k, yeah, . because i know fg@or a f g@ g@g@g@g@g@g@ g@ coming uion of frontline..@ a special encore ag@ g@> everybody is subject to terrorists g@many levels. pug@litzer piest.g@ aresafe enough?g@g@g@g@g@g@g@ n, september 9, 2001.g@ trooper would do.g@g@g@g@state troo through the local policeg@ an@ had proper registration,g@cense@ have a nice night. that was it.g@ narrator:g@g@ng friends at te airporg@.g@g@g@g@g@d flight 93 . g@ziad jarrag@g@g@of jarrah by @ president bus the on the nigg@ht of 9/11, yoe everything you neeg@ g@ because as soon as we went g@e congress, th blan whag@t congress did, and te amerg@r all the agencies that w. right after 9g@ own gradatiog@n, but popular rule of thumb ybody dou@ 21st c narrator:g@investigativg@e tracking the gg@rowth of g@g@ also her virginia, californg@ia narrag@ effort to forton of the departme securityg@.g@ homeland security g@the largest thg@ the coastg@ - all beg@ing fused together g@e organization.g@g@ nar on what willg@cracy.g@ rg@ $3.4 billion headqg@ built in washington.g@g@ould nea bureaucracy, which is a castore@ created, offg@ beg@ federal intelligenate.g@hing li@ databases that had ig@red and itg@ was not connecting the dots thatg@ s why dhs decided to g@ps and federal government datrough. you need to ge ang@d you need to haveproperly @ g@ built one of the first. theg@se fusion centers are very, sharingg@ state governg@ the more we cog another september 11, 2001, fr occurring. so the homeunded intelligenge fug@g@ly 80 persong@nel represeng@ncludingg@ the contn the la narrator: so far, dhs hasg@ n centg@ers. g@the beat. g@g@ possible terg@ you want to get as much information from that into the sysg@tem- federalg@ euphem connected.g@ away, the imperative to ga as much information as possiblgd g@g@g@ officers infiltrated antig@ g@sometimes met here.e re tryin@ and the climate chaos people,g@@ g@ one of the targetsn.g@ enfo g@ law g@g@ g@ t,g@ce had gathered g@da.it mad@ which is absurd on mg@ tororist is justg@g@ one ver be appliedg@ you know ton t know where yourh- g@called terrorists a bigg@ g@federal officials, and that when the american ciberties uni@ to eg@ collecting the appropriate na@ the g@ the na unna people. so, the in disseminated very broadlg@g@ police g@ labeled as terrorists. program.g@ ng@ embarrassment e ofg@ the sort of cowboy excesseg@ you can get into if g@ properly@ this is one casolice, but th@ g@ at all levels of governmen state, local pg@elandg@t ofg@ defense.g@ narrator: the beat.g@o depend on cops ont@ cops are informatione of defe g@ terrorg@ are doing that.g@tor: this isg@, g@own as a sar sg@ i officersg@ in this cou g@ross something related to homeland securito tes g@ local police areg@org@ behav@ g@g@vity and photographs ofg@s g police in trouble.g@ g@s arrested by amtrak police,g@ because they tho behavior was suspig@cit was an e g@ation-d anti-terrorg@ g@ limiting information acceso happen.g@ g@explosion, forget people say,@ you ve got t g@conundrum, isn i me g@ that are most vuln terror attacks. and also, sag@dly, vulnerable tg@ government turning on things and dg@ g@ narrator: m federal government continu g@end billions of dolles to gat@ in maryl g@ g@ here?tem we re using hasg@ taking pictures,g@wing the systm g@ re looking for, again, it spended or revokedg@arrator: th@ migrated to the streets of with g@ information, we can the g@sy this car hg@ystem,g@ license plate, ig@ocr optical@ g@ maybe nobody called it ink or bolling air force base.g@g@e re@ when the that s a pattethat s something @ ng@arrator: and they ve gurt. smile g@camerag@ g@ we are very big o we bel multiplier, thatg@g@ter securig@ efg@ and other ets.g@y good atg@g@th@ g@veg@ g@rs,g@the troops on the grounde somethg@ g@ has attracteg@ g@mman and somenewcomers.g@ g@ pre- that massive new organization,a@ g@vernment has been constructing since 9/11.g@g@ doesn t that make s years ag@ g@secret america as it grew and@ priest: what s this oe s algl g@eds ofg@ plain sighthis.g@ priest: and this is to. to the nsa? s a governmen@ you ll sg@ tuously, i can t go that way. g@buildingericans are fighting n re, csc is in g@one of theseg@es g@ priest: so maw.g@ watching over here.g@ g@ rivateg@ priest: allo over whag@t you@ up to that credit union placg@ narrator: they incredible building boomngton.g@ g@ver see this t priest: and yeah. g@sameashington.g@ g@.g@ld sog@ngg@but they go dowo secretive, so large and unwieldy, that no one knows much it g@ g@ g@at i knew going on. i think someone sal the special@ is notg@.g@g@ narrator: ran the nationalnde g@ g@ i wg@ in intelligeg@hatnts. narrator: and no sts. you have a congreg@ g@g@ and recognizes it, calls it d g@ and where are they being mg@ well, they r 17 different intelliagencies.g@@ so, naturallyou re goingg@ to g@ g@ security, tually making us sg@afer.g@g@ g@ and g@ g@ it s not true that allg@peopleg. .tried tog@ setighting ceremony.rested by feg@deral s detonate. narrator: but wha@ .the guy who tried tog@ passenge what exactly went wr? ng@arrato christmas, the ug@ wh numerous g@teg@lligence r father who warned th g@ more questions than aned flags raised. to the pointg@ering the@ what we found out g@christg@g@ misspelled byg@ one g@ttg@t him g@ g@is? g@he billions of dollar that simple - check, did g@you mean t of software g@ narrator: and then, fivetheg@ .can be assured tg@ha procg@ experience the times square bomberrrend. g@a bunch of vendors in timeto s g@car. ose cases it was note @ times square, it was a vendo sog there, letting the lawthoritie@ so, weg@g@g@ the fbi says it . .hereg@o blow up a mi in..g@. narrator: and the this case that hapg@pened g@ .tra bomb. g@d it ing@g@ agg@ent had given the susp inert bomb. hg@e which he wasg@ however, when he keyed it, i under arrest at that time.g@nd g faceg@book. baltimore. priest: i m trying to tg@ g@uld haveg@ poli different poli together.g@ priest: okay, so not so g@on the technology?s correct.g@ n new technology was not ig@ nor were the cctv or licenseg@ re free to go.g@g@rator: next te they stg@il g@home. you took a broken sole anymore.elg@ like ever you don t kng@ of war. up part of our g@mollows us tg@o survive. it allows us oon. g@ g@ g@ frontlinere from our inter@ how many people the stories of his al g@ what are interrogation tactg@ic okay.g@ camera down now.loser look at h@ g@eg@nter.watch the program aga@ g@g@ frontg@ g@ than g@ publicg@ g@ to building a more just,g@ p@ g@ g@ by the p l issues.g@ g@ fund, supp g@g@g@g@g@g@g@g@g@ ine programs, visit ourat pbs.o@ @ frontline s gis available on dvd. to order, visit g@ call 1g@ frontline is a frontline is a g@ download on itg@g@g@g@g@g@g@@ g@g@ol h apparentlyg@ official our madng@ess beyond measure g you into histog@ry. g@