The national stage. Despite or perhaps because of a multipr offensive waged in defense of the new York Police Departments policy. An offense of which began last week in response to a judge finding the nypds stop and frisk violated the Constitutional Rights of people of color in new york. It intensified this weekend when nypd commissioner ray kelly who remains a top candidate for the head of the deparent defarmt of Homeland Security appeared on meet the press to defend his record. If a program like stop and frisk is abandoned, will people die . Well, i think no question about it, Violent Crime will go up. Again, this is not a program. This is something thats integral to policing. This happens throughout america. And any police jurisdiction. You have to do it. That appearance coincided with a predictably defensive editorial by mayor Michael Bloomberg in the Washington Post in which the mayor took turns defending stop and fricsk and attacking the Washington Post, itself, and others were criticizing the practice saying the men and women who protect our city from criminals and terrorists deserve better than to have their integrity impugned in a courtroom or a newspaper especially when the facts are so clearly on their side. Even today speaking at a press conference, touting the largest gun seizure in new york history, both men looked to play up the role of stop and frisk in getting guns off the street. Wiretap conversations from this investigation show that one of the gun traffickers biggest concerns was stop, question, frisk. Campbell didnt want to risk it being found by new york police and is heard saying, yeah. Im in charlotte now. I cant take them to my house, to my side of town, in brownsville. We got, like, watchamacallit, stop and frisk. Mayor bloomberg and commissioner kelly doubling down and repeating the same statements again and again over stop and frisk is not having the intended ill packeimpact. Sybrina made the connection that drives stop and frisk and the suspicion that ended up taking the life of trayvon martin. You have to give the Police Officers the right direction. You cant give people the authority whether a civilian or Police Officers the right to just stop somebody because of the color of their skin. Back in new york city, frontrunner in the mayoral raise, bill deblazio catapulted into first place because of his opposition to stop and frisk. This morning he unveiled his second ad on the topic. There are hundreds of thousands of new yorkers who never experienced stop and frisk. We talked to dante many times about the fact someday he will be stopped. Parents all over the city are having that conversation with their kids. Bill de blasio, to end the stop and frisk era. Bill de blasio is in an uncommon position for a white man having a son who will likely be stopped and frisked by the nypd. Thats not true of Michael Bloomberg. A small, amazingly revealing moment, he, quote, conceded to the new yorker, if i had a son no was stopped, i might feel differently about it. Joining me, ben jealous of the naacp. You heard ray kelly and Michael Bloomberg saying the big gun seizure was thanks partly to stop and frisk. Why are you standing in the way of the effective gun control measure done in new york city to make the streets safer here . Well, because quite frankly, Effective Police work focused on behavior is what gets guns off the street. Stop and frisk doesnt. You know, in 2011, we had about 700,000 stop and frisks in the city. 680,000. And they pulled about 700 guns off the street. That means that 99. 9 of the stop and frisks didnt yield any guns. If you want to get 700 guns off the street, well, you can do it through a big seizure like they did today or do it by an effective gun buyback program. And either way, you would be much more effective than the amount of hours it takes, if you can imagine, to do 700,000 stop and frisks. Sometimes involving one cop, sometimes involving multiple cops. Naacp is, of course, a national organization, oldest Civil Rights Organization in the u. S. You have chapters everywhere. Why are you so focused on new york city and stop and frisk . For folks who are watching who dont live in new york city, is this bigger than new york city . Yes, this is the biggest racial profiling program in the country, biggest racial profiling k profiling, maybe in the world. Mayor bloomberg tried to get the mayor of San Francisco to replicate his program. Back then he was saying it was a program. No now hes trying to switch pr tactics. The mayor said thank you but no because it is just a phenomenal waste of resources and its not effective. I mean, just break this down, chris. You kind of roll the tape back a bit. Back in 2002, as kelly was taking over, he was very clear that he saw stop and frisk as dubious. He was very clear that actually he was against racial profiling. Hed come out of u. S. Customs where hed been very effective in increasing the productivity of searches by customs by ending racial profiling. He also said that you cant really take credit for drop in crime. That it was like taking credit for an eclipse of the moon. And he, of course, was referring to his predecessor, bill bratton. Bill bratton, threequarters of the drop in homicides in new york city since its high point in the early 1990s happened during that period. Yeah, happened during that period. Let me ask you this. You raise the specter of ray kelly. Ray kelly has been a very stalwart defender of his departments approach. Believes genuinely hes saving peoples lives. Saving black and brown peoples lives. Hes been floated as possible head of dhs. Given this policy and how associated with it, how stalwart defender, what do you think of the possibility of ray kelly being nominated to head dhs . I think that it is possible me get s nominated. I think if he gets nominated, hell face the fiercest opposition from the Civil Rights Community that any person put forward by president obama ever has. It will be vocal and outspoken because he has chosen to be vocal and outspoken about racial profiling. Im not sure that, frankly, he really believes in this. At the very least, he was against racial profiling before he was for if. He thought stop and frisk was dubious before he became its biggest champion. And well, hes definitely theres been a trajectory. Theres been some movement. Im willing to grant. Ben jealous from the naacp. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you, chris. Joining me now, ryan grim, Washington Bureau chief for the Washington Post. Ray kelly, head of new york citys police department, which is a big job, on sunday shows talking about stop and frisk as a central issue, and im just curious, what was your read of the political subtext of those appearances . You know, hes in a difficult position here because, you know, hes been floated now for a long time as a likely pick here. I know obama tends to leave people out there for a long time. It happened to susan rice. It happened to larry summers. And its difficult. Hes most associated with stop and frisk, but like ben jealous said, he might not actually believe in it, but because hes so associated with it, he just has to come out and say it. I thought it was awfully revealing of kind of where the media lead is, the way gregory came out and said, will this plead to more people dying . He essentially was baiting ray kelly to say if you change this policy, you will have blood on your hands. He sort of took the bait but didnt exactly go there. He knows hes in a really tough spot because this is such a controversial issue nationally. It doesnt it doesnt wear as well nationally. If new york was the only city in the world, a lot of new yorkers often think it is, youd think, oh, there was stop and frisk and crime came down so stop and frisk must have driven crime down. Washington, we dont do this. You dont get asked for your papers, dont get stopped by cops when youre walking down the street in washington and crime has plummeted here. How do you explain that if youre ray kelly . What i think is fascinating, im curious what you think of this from your perch in washington, is we have seen i think in the wake of Trayvon Martins death and the acquittal of george zimmerman, the florida dream defenders down in florida, ray kelly, Michael Bloomberg, mayoral race and the judges decision and the president s comments on this, this remarkable confluence, unlike any ive ever seen that put this issue, our criminal justice system, racial profiling within it. Its disproportionate effect on black and brown people. Right in the center of the national debate. Is it being felt in washington where it has, in my opinion, for years been complete ll lly abse . Yeah, it very much is and it really is for the first time in more than 20 years, because, you know, republicans ran effectively, you know, through the late 60s and 70s and into the 80s painting democrats as soft on crime. So they did the same thing they did with welfare reform. They said, were not going to win this issue, lets just throw them under the bus. They got really tough on crime. You know, joe biden was really kind of the leading drug warrior in the senate, both republican and democratic. And that kind of took the issue off the table and instead of there being a debate about it, it was who was tougher. Who could get more, you know, who could rough more people up, who could be more in favor of more police on the streets who would give them more militarygrade weapons longer sentences. Exactly. This is the thing, this is the key truth, ryan, if an issue in washington is not being debated by democrats and republicans, it ceases to exist. No matter how much effect it has on lives of millions of americans. Msnbc contributor ryan grim. Thank you so much. Thank you. Our latest installment of i see you politician whos trying to get away with something features the governor of new jersey. Chris christie. Who spent the past few days probably hoping no one noticed what he did on friday night and everyone noticed what he did on monday morning. Thats coming up. Is your busine. So, if youre sleeping in your contact lenses, ask about the air optix® contacts so breathable theyre approved for up to 30 nights of continuous wear. Serious eye problems may occur. Ask your doctor and visit airoptix. Com for Safety Information and a free onemonth trial. The beach on your tv is much closer than it appears. Dive into labor day with up to 50 off hotels at travelocity. [ villain ] well mr. Baldwin. It appears our journey has come to a delightful end. Then i better use the capital one purchase eraser to redeem my venture miles for this trip. Purchase eraser . Its the easy way to erase any recent travel expense. I just pick a charge, like my flight with a few taps, its taken care of. Impressive baldwin. Does it work for hotels . Absolutely thank goodness. Mrs. Villain and i are planning our. You scare me. And i like it. Lets go whats in your wallet . We had a big announcement today at msnbc. Starting next monday, august 26th, the the ed show will move back to weeknights 5 00 p. M. Eastern and hardball with Chris Matthews will air at 7 00 p. M. Eastern. It will be great to have eds voice back five days a week. Up next, the latest Conspiracy Theory about barack obama and this ones not from fox news. But Egyptian State television. Stick around. But i dont love chlorine bleach. See this . This is what bleach did to my favorite dress. Oh, but i dont see a dress. Nope. Exactly, because using bleach over time made it dingy so i threw it out. But now i use tide plus bleach with boost vivid and my whites stay whiter than with bleach. Why dont you try on that invisible dress . Oh, dan. [ female announcer ] reintroducing tide plus bleach alternative. For incredible whites without the harshness of chlorine bleach. [ jen ] thats my tide for brilliant whites. [ dan ] whats yours . 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I believe exposing children to these health risks without clear evidence of benefits that outweigh serious risks is not appropriate. Based upon this analysis, i signed this bill into law. Now, thats a perfectly good thing to do. It shouldnt be a difficult decision since minors should not be subjected to something that the American Psychological association is basically calling child abuse. But okay. That a boy, Chris Christie. This is, after all, what we might expect from a governor for a state that went for president obama by 17 points in the last election. This past friday, however, another Chris Christie was at work and that Chris Christie did something after 6 00 p. M. In the summer on a friday when all the reporters had gone for the weekend. That Chris Christie vetoed a ban on a military sniper rifle, the barrett. 50 caliber longrange rifle. Heres the big military rifle. A weapon that has no plausible civilian use. Its more or less a war toy for amateur gun enthusiasts. The ban was one previously called for, wait for it, chris kr ri christie, himself, last april. He says the bill goes too far by prohibiting current owners from keeping their guns. It could be a group called progun new hampshire, interesting state, rallied out of state gun supporters to push christie to veto the bill with 2016 in mind. This is the Chris Christie dance, and its the one well get to see as he runs for reelection this year in a state with lots of liberals but positions himself with conservatives ahead of 2016, but keep this in mind, as soon as election day hits in november, if Chris Christie wins the second term, there will be no immediate need to strike such a balancing act. No new jersey liberals to be concerned about. Freaky friday will not be fol w followed by moderate monday. Joining me now is barbara, Democratic State senator, whos a candidate for governor of new jersey. Senator, what do you think about these two bills . The first bill, the bill the governor signed today and the bill on friday he vetoed . Well, you know, over the weekend the governor really, governor straighttalk really came clean, portrays himself as a social moderate. The only thing motivating him is his singular attempt to become the republican nominee for president of the United States. And so on friday, profiles in courage, he decides to veto gun bills that, as you said, he actually came out in support of. Let me push back on that. If thats the case, the only thing thats motivating him is to become the nominee in 2016, why do we get todays bill banning this practice which is not going to curry favor with republican primary voters . Hes trying to thread the needle. Youll see that when he it was very telling when he was questioned by reporters on this bill when it fst came out. What do you think of gay conversion . His initial reaction, unfiltered, all thentic christie reaction, i need to know more about it. What more do you need to know, Chris Christie . Gay and conversion, you put those two words together. Its about punishing our children, trying to convince our children theyre not what they are. Youre saying this was a calculation, political calculation. Everything he does is a political calculation. Hes a politician. Youre a politician, too. Its true. His calculations are to the detriment of the people of new jersey. The one difference is he is driven by his singular ambition to become the nominee for president of the United States and the people of new jersey are going to be left behind. You can see it in everything he does. If youre watching, he vetoed Womens Health funding. He vetoed funding for plan the parenthood. It was a purely new jersey voters love him. His Approval Ratings are high. Hes doing very well. The people, the political analysts, i dont like to predict anything, says hes cruising to reelection, that youre not going to beat him. Whats the problem . Are new jersey voters getting hoodwinked . Do they not realize what theyre getting in Chris Christie . People in new jersey and in general dont focus on the election until after labor day traditionally. When you talk to people and they realize, when they know because of this governor, we have property taxes that have gone up 20 , we have one of the highest rates of unemployment in the nation. The highest extremely high. In the regioregion. Under this governor, were one of the worst states to do businesses. Our rankings have actually dropped as a good place to do business. This is a governor who tries to portray himself as a social moderate but hes anything but. Hes antimarriage