interaction affects behavior pattern, overall attitude or health. in 2013 he internally published and circulated this 144-page presentation on the ethical role and responsibility of tech companies like google to their users. well, that presentation definitely started a dialogue. it definitely wasn't enough. in 2016 he decided to leave google to push for change in how we interact with technology, eventually co-founding the center for humane technology. last year he appeared in the netflix documentary "the social dilemma" to discuss what he experienced and how dangerous unchecked tech and social media can be. >> it's not enough that you use the product consciously. i want to dig down deeper into the brainstem and plant inside of you an unconscious habit so that you are being programmed at a deeper level. you don't even realize it. >> and tristan harris joins me now. great to have you here. i know this is something you've been thinking about basically full-time for a very long time. how significant do you think haugen's revelations and testimony were today? >> being honest with you, i was