it's done in real estate business. everybody messes around with the values of their properties for different purposes, different mechanisms, this is how it's done. finally, this was a bank. this wasn't some unsophisticated person i was deceiving. this was a sophisticated bank. they knew what was going on. they had their own appraisers. they don't care. those are serious obstacles and i don't see the d.a. being able to overcome those obstacles without having somebody there, a cooperator who will tell him this is actually what we were doing and this is the way we were doing it. the documents are really important, but i don't think they're enough to make this case. i would be surprised if they were. >> that point is really true. one thing i learned from this entire era, wow, there's a lot of shadiness in the world of real estate and like a lot of three-card monty happening with evaluations and such. and back when i was investigating the financial crisis, there were areas ripe for fraud, a lot happening