we have a massive racial wealth gap so to me it is a fantasy that we have race neutrality, other than affirmative action. just like it was a fantasy a century ago that the schools were separate but equal. >> so you write that we need a new legal movement to expose race neutrality as a fantasy. what is the new legal movement? >> well, i think it starts with your previous guest, he was actually demonstrating that legacy is actually not a quote, race neutral. that it actually gives preferences to white students. we start to look at something at our admissions factors that are their which demonstrates they are leading to racial inequities. and disparities. and i think that's what we have to show. we have to demonstrate the outcome of these policies and be less focused on whether they have racial language or even the intent of the policy maker. cy maker >> you talk about the outcome