The Obama Administration announcing a Major Overhaul to ease government drug sentencing guidelines. Holder was clear this isnt just about perform reforming an outdated, inefficient and expensive war on drugs, he said. This is about reforming a judicial system of inequality system that will abuses blacks and minorities. This is holdser speak how theyre disproportionately involved in that system. We also must confront the reality that once theyre in that system, people of color often face harsher punishments than their peers. In recent years, black male offenders have received sentences nearly 20 longer than those imposed on white males convicted of similar crimes. This isnt just unacceptable. It is shameful. Now, the second case in new york city where a federal judge demolished the citys tactics surrounding a controversial stop and frisk law, the law has become a flash point for racial tensions nationwide not unlike stand your ground in the Trayvon Martin case. In her ruling, the judge said that tens of thousand of new yorkers had their rights systemically violated and overwhelming majority of the victims black and hispanic. The city must now follow a strict series of remedies at the courts request including the appointment of an independent monitor to oversee the nypd conduct. New york mayor Michael Bloomberg was livid. The law in connection with a declining crime rate has been a defining part of his legacy. And at a press conference earlier today, he didnt hide his disgust, particularly when it came to the issue of a monitor. If somebody pulls a gun and you want to get home to your family, you dont have time to say well, wait a second, the commissioner said one thing, the monitor said another and the ig said another. By that time, youre dead. And id like to see you go to the funeral and explain to the family why their son or husband or father is not coming home at night. Sherrilynn ifill is the president and director of the naacps he education fund. George pataki a former governor of the great state of new york. These are called terry stops. In a terry stop, a Police Officer needs to be operating on more than a hunch. The way new york city was carrying out stop and frisk the judge said resulted in an indirect form of racial profiling. Yeah, i totally disagree with the judge, michael. Youre probably not surprised by that. I think what we have seen is a dramatic reduction in Violent Crime in the city. There will be at least 2,000 fewer murderers this year than there were about ten years ago in one year. The vast majority of those victims are minorities. And their lives are being saved because we have a Police Department and a mayor who are being proactive in going after illegal guns, illegal activity on the street in a way that i believe and i hope the mayor will appeal and is ultimately determined to be constitutional. Sherrilynn, respond to that. And also tell me how will this be received in the Minority Community, where the governor points out folks are most disproportionately affected by crime. Well, lets begin by saying while Violent Crime certainly has been reduced in new york city, its been reduced all over this country. In fact, the Violent Crime rate in this country is where it was in 1966. Yet the prison population is far beyond where it was in 1966. Stop and frisk policies are not about illegal activity. Certainly those in the Minority Community as the governor points out are disproportionately the victims of Violent Crime care about guns and illegal activity in the community. But stop and frisk which resulted in the stopping of over 600,000 new yorkers, the vast majority of whom were africanamerican and latino and which produced arrests of about 12 of those who were stopped and frisked is about engaging in this conduct towards people who are doing nothing wrong. Its a form of racial profiling and were thrilled that judge in this exhaustive 200page opinion recognized that the activities of the police and this policy infringes on the Constitutional Rights of new yorkers. I think the governor was saying in part that one of the reasons the crime has reached this 40year low is because of the implementation of programs like stop and frisk. And i guess one of the things im saying is how do you account for the fact that crime has reached a low all over the United States, including places where you dont have stop and frisk . The reality is that crime began to go down in new york in the 1990s when dinkens was mayor, when David Dinkens was mayor before we instituted stop and frisk, and all over the country crime has been going down. Were at astonishingly low rates of crime in the country. The question is can we begin to create some of the excesses like stop and frisk that the judge identified today. I want to show you both this. Mayor bloomberg was quick to defend the policies of the use of stop and frisk, arguing that the law has been a key part of new yorks reduced crime rate, just as we mentioned. Every day, commissioner kelly and i wake up determined to keep new yorkers safe and save lives. And our crime strategies and tools, including stop, question, frisk, have made new york city the safest big city in america. And im happy to say we are on pace for another record low of shootings and homicides this year. Because our Police Officers follow the law and follow the crime. They fight crime wherever crime is occurring and they dont worry if their work doesnt matchup to a census chart. Governor, this is a big part of his legacy. He doesnt want to leave office with the record he has intact and all of a sudden be remembered as the guy implementing stop and frisk on an unconstitutional basis. Well, i think he should be remembered as the man who helped reduce Violent Crime to historically low levels in this city. Sherrilynn is absolutely right. We have an seen a decline across the country but havent seen anything like the dramatic decline in new york city. You can trash new york city where we have policing, including stop and frisk, with chicago, where the rate of minority murders in that city is just unacceptable. And sherrilynn is also right when you look at the statistics. But look at the statistics of the stop and frisk. It reflects basicallity the percentages of those who ultimately are arrested and charged with crimes in this city. The sad fact is that not only are minorities an overwhelming percentage of the victims of Violent Crime, they tragically are also those who most often end up convicted of committing those crimes. President obama made a point about that when he seemed to speak extemporaneously on that on friday. We may have been together analyzing the speech that day. He made the point about africanamericans being disproportionately represented on both sides of that deal. You know what is interesting about this is it actually stop and frisk policies, they actually undermine Law Enforcement. Because what ends up happening is young men, like many of the men who testified and who brought forward evidence in this case who have been stopped and frisked 12, 13, 14 times in a fiveyear period, young men who are in high school, young men who are in college doing nothing wrong, they and their families later come to distrust the police. Theyre the same people who are going to sit on our juries. Theyre the same people who we need to call the police to give information about real crime happening in their communities. And they become distrustful. It sets up a barrier between Law Enforcement and the communities, and that harms africanamericans as well as the rest of the residents of the city. Lets talk briefly about the sentencing case, if we can. Because in his speech today, attorney general eric holder combatted criticisms his actions in sentencing reform would be labeled as soft on crime or compromising public safety. The attorney general defended his proposals to ease drug sentencing guidelines by pointing to state programs that have successfully focused on Community Programs instead of hardline prosecution. Be clear. These measures have not compromised public safety. In fact, many states have seen drops in recidivism at the same time their prison populations were declining. While our federal prison has continued to slowly expand, significant state level reductions have led to three consecutive years of decline in americas overall prison population including in 2012, the largest drop ever. Experienced in a single year. Governor, some are saying this is an end run around congress. I happen to think that it is. But i get it. Members of Congress Want to thump their chests and be tough on crime and will vote for mandatory minimums. But when it comes time to dial that back, nobody wants to be held accountable. See, i disagree with you. I think to the extent that the attorney general is proposing to change the drug sentencing laws, it should be done by statute. It should be done with congress. And i did exactly that in new york state. We put in place policies that provided shock incarceration, communitybased treatment for certain low level drug offenders. At the same time we increased penalties for those who would have a gun or use a gun or the higher level drug kingpins. When i left office, we had 7,000 fewer people in prison than we did because of those intelligent reforms. What im saying is i dont think they could get it through the congress, because i dont think people want to stand up and vote aye for something that dials it back. Its a political problem. Michael, i think i have had a record and have an attitude that is as tough on crime, including drug violations as any governor in this state. Yet i was able not just to sign that into law, but to propose reforms when theyre done intelligently and when its balanced, and you dont look at it as a way to allow highlevel drug dealers or those who have a gun or those who have a history of violence to get out early, then i think you can create a bipartisan consensus for treatment and alternatives. Let me ask you both this. We have the statistic, the data here. Its been bandied about a great deal today. 5 of the worlds population, 25 of the worlds incarcerated population and a 40year low in crime. Can you read all of that together and say well, one of the reasons we have such a high rate of incarceration and such low crime is because a lot of the bad seeds have been taken off the street . I dont mean to cut sherrilynn out, but i totally agree with that. One of the things we did was change sentencing not just in drug area. We have much tougher sentences for those who are repeat criminals. And its one of the reasons why we saw such a dramatic reduction of Violent Crime in the new york state. Listen, in 1991, the prison population in the entire United States was about 200,000. Thats now about the federal prison population, about 219,000. Overall, we have 2. 2 Million People incarcerated in the United States. Thats a dramatic increase in the last 30, 40 years. We just talked about the alltime low, you know, in Violent Crime. We overreached and we broke families and we broke communities. The reality is the vast majority of people who are in prison are going to get out. When they get out, they will have the deficit of their record, they will have the deficit of what happened to them when they were in prison, they will have precious few resources that are available to begin their lives again. So what the attorney general suggested today, and i think its really fascinating. Hes focusing on a little discussed area of authority and power. And thats prosecutorial discretion. He says its not about end runs around the law. Prosecutors have the ability to decide what theyre going to charge a criminal defendant with. Understood. And he says, our prosecutors, u. S. Attorneys need to use that charging power in a smart way. They need to use it to do just what judge pataki said, make sure that you come hard against those who is have the record, who have been involved in violent criminal activity but not against people who have a clean record who are involved in nonviolent activity. You dont use the drug kingpin statues meant to get the worst of the worst against those kinds of individuals. Its a great conversation. Thank you both for being here to participate in it. Thank you. Sherrilynn ifill and george pataki. Coming up, what is the one thing that could ruin the fun that Reince Priebus has been having bashing nbc for bashing a hillary miniseries . That would be if it turned outfox was producing it. And guess what . They are considering producing it. Its now your move, reince. Also, the gift that keeps on giving. The iowa caucuses, only 880 days away, give or take a couple of weeks away but already ds and rs are acting like its 14 degrees and were in january of 2016. Plus, guilty as charged. Boston mobster Whitey Bulger is convicted of a bunch of racketeering charges, including 11 murders. The government is likely to provide bulgers housing for the rest of his life. And perhaps the biggest clown in what Chris Matthews loves to call the republican 2012 clown show, back with more birther nonsense. This is hardball, the place for politics. The earth moves a. But man moves the earth. With bestinclass torque and bestinclass towing, these are some of the bold, new ram commercial trucks built to tilt the axis of capability. Guts. Glory. Ram. Help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. I can tell you safety is at the heart of everything we do. Weve added cuttingedge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a stateoftheart monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twentyfourseven. And were sharing what weve learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. Our commitment has never been stronger. President obama gave his most spirited defense of his Health Care Law on friday. And now republicans have revived some of the false talking points to discredit it. Heres rnc chair Reince Priebus. The fact is, what people dont want are government panels deciding whether somethings medically necessary. Government panels . Sounds a lot like those death panels that sarah palin used to talk about. By the way, one reason why more americans oppose obama care than support it, its getting killed on twitter. Kantar medias campaign for media analysis tracks political ads and tweets and found negative tweets outnumber positive tweets by six or seven to one. Well be right back. No were g this is your first time missing a payment. And youve got the it card, so we wont hike up your apr for paying late. Thats great it is great thank you. At discover, we treat you like youd treat you. Get the it card with late payment forgiveness. Welcome back to hardball. That Hillary Clinton mini series hasnt been produced yet and already, theres a plot twist. Last week, rnc chair Reince Priebus spent time on television threatening cnn and nbc he will pull gop primary debates in the president ial cycle if both networks move forward with planned specials about Hillary Clinton. But over the weekend, the New York Times revealed the conservative fox news channels own sister entertainment division, Fox Television studios is in talks to produce and distribute the script for the miniseries being planned to air on nbc. Candy crowley confronted priebus putting the chairman on the defensive about those revelations yesterday on cnn. The New York Times is reporting that the nbc clinton series might likely be produced by Fox Television studios. Thats sort of a Sister Company to fox news. So the if we follow your logic, do you think that there then is a connection to fox news and would they be subject to the same kind of scrutiny . Im going to boycott the company that puts the miniseries and the documentaries on the air for the American People to view. Im not interested in whether they use the same sound studio or whether they use the same set. I dont know the truth of anything youre talking about. But i do know whats very clear. Is that the company that puts these things on the air to promote Hillary Clinton including cnn is the company that is not going to be involved in our debates. Period. So the people that write. With me now bill carter of the New York Times and sam stein the huffington post. Lets be clear. Were arguing or theyre arguing about a script that hasnt even been written. Thats right. And i think first of all, i have no dog in this fight but when i wrote the story and realized that fox had involvement with their entertainment arm, i thought it was certainly interesting, and sort of raises the question of who is really responsible for putting on an entertainment thing, and how does it relate to anybodys news division. But i think it becomes, and i recognize that you have no dog in the fight. It seems like a hard an argument for Reince Priebus toe make that im going to hold accountable those networks that air it as compared to those who produce it. When i read your piece and then heard what he had to say as a lawyer, i thought of civil law and product liability. Those ho get held accountable are manufacturers and vendors, assuming its a defective product. Look, in the entertainment world, there are entangled relationships. And in this case, nbc picks up the project that was pitched all around, and they look for a production entity. That production entity will have a deep involvement. They