Continuing resolution on the floor right now. Lets get it done. Gentleman yields back. End this republican Government Shutdown. As the chair previously advised, the request cannot be entertained. Im craig melvin. Youre watching msnbc. The house and senate both at work today. House republicans left a morning pep rally saying they have no new proposals. Then all eyes turn to the senate. They took up a plan to reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling. That also went nowhere. As the mess continues inside, on the National Mall today, tea Party Founders cleaned up. But who will end the mess that the shutdown is causing for americans . We are following all the latest live from capitol hill. We wish they could find that same kind of innovation in washington, d. C. That we find here in utah. Also ahead, wideopen spaces. Today, several states are reopening National Parks. But at what cost . Well talk about that. And concussion crisis. A new book claims the nfl ignored the link between the sport and brain injuries. Does it tell the whole story . And fix it, dont toss it. Your trash may be this couples treasury. Its todays big idea. We start on capitol hill where a lot of people are talking but still no breakthrough in the stalemate. Joining me live from the hill, luke russert whos been following this for 12 days now. Walk us through what happened this morning. We know House Speaker john boehner said theres currently no deal, no negotiations, no reason for congress to even stick around until monday. Then just about an hour ago, Senate Democrats voted down proposal by republican senator Susan Collins. Reporter yeah, theres a lot of action going on here on capitol hill with a possible way forward to fund the government and extend the debt limit. At 9 00 a. M. This morning, the house gop conference met. It was there that john boehner and eric cantor said, the white house has rejected our sixweek extension, the debt limit plan. As of right now, it all goes over to the senate gop. Senate republicans are going to be the ones who negotiate this. Boehner told his conference it was up to them, saying its up to House Republicans to hold it strong. The house gop, theyre dismissed. The house is gone till 6 30 on monday. In the senate, talks are under way between harry reid and Mitch Mcconnell about some sort of way to fund the government as well as extend the debt limit. As one senator told me, the adults are now in the room guiding these discussions. What will this deal look like . We do not know. Senate democrats did not like the proposal by Susan Collins which would have extended the debt limit until january 31st and funded the government through march 31 because it wasnt long enough. They dont want it to come up again in an election year. They dont want to have to have another one of these fights. So reid, mcconnell, Chuck Schumer, lamar alexander, two republicans, two democrats, but really reid and mcconnell are now spearheading the negotiations. Theyre trying to figure out some way forward. Craig, the way in which the senate works with parliamentary procedure, theyre up against a clock. They need to get this out sooner rather than later. The later they get it out, the more of an opportunity that folks like cruz and paul have to hold it up. I spoke to one republican aide in the senate. They said worst case scenario, if they held up an agreement that could come out as early as today or tomorrow, you could see the final vote on this deal come thursday, the day we reach the debt limit. No one wants to go that close. Now, whatever deal comes out of the senate, most likely will be bipartisan. Should pass by a wide margin. But House Republicans are going to hate it because theyre going to say they were kept out of the deal. Then john boehner has a decision. He can put it on the floor or try and offer something at the last minute. But then where it ends, we dont know. All we know is its on reid and mcconnells shoulders and the white house is being kept informed of every last detail, were being told as well. I think the thesis there is, where it ends, we dont know . Luke, well come back to you later in the broadcast. Thank you as always. I want to bring in Kayla Tausche and the National Political reporter at the national journal. Kayla, five days from now, five days, looks like we very well could hit this socalled debt ceiling. The stock market so far seems to be taking it in stride. Dow closing higher yesterday. What will a default look like . Walk us through that. Thursday is basically the equivalent of if you hit your credit card borrowing limit. You cant spend any more money on your credit card. Youre dealing only with your paycheck and whatever money that holds is what you use to cover your expenses. Theres a 6 billion payment coming up on the 31st. And the treasury secretary said the government will have to do those expenses before the Interest Payment comes through. A default would come anytime between october 22nd and november 1st. Thats what scares wall street. It could happen any day in that time frame. Theyre not looking at a single deadline. The fear is thats not putting enough pressure under congress because theres not a single date were looking at. If they dont get this done by thursday, the government has to pay its bills. It could happen any time the following week. Some are saying that even if we surpass this limit that it might not be the end of civilization as we know it. What say you to that . I think an important fulcrum was hit this week. A lot of the big money investors started selling these shortterm treasuries that come up for payment in the next two weeks to a month. Now, in previous situations with the debt ceiling when the government has tried to delay these payments or negotiate with some of these investors, theyve been able to say, we might not get there. Give us a couple of extra weeks. But those same people have been selling that debt. Who holds it now . China, japan, brazil, europe. Do we want to be negotiating with those people . Thats a scary situation and something the u. S. Has never seen before. Dave is also standing by down in washington, d. C. House democrats this morning tried to force a vote on last weeks senate bill which would have opened the government and left obama care intact. Democratic lawmakers were seen wearing some stickers in support of opening the government. What was accomplished in the house this morning, dave . Reporter not much because it was immediately undone by the senate. Democrats in the senate brought up the clean longterm debt limit increase and were unable to get the votes they needed to break a filibuster of it. The idea this could be passed in the house always rested on the idea that the senate was ready to move it. Keep in mind, they werent talking about quite the same thing. The real negotiation is probably going to involve a shorterterm debt limit than what was coming up in the senate. But democrats are just trying to create the impression that they are able to deal. Theyre willing to move ahead and put as much onus and blame on the republicans as possible. The House Democrats could introduce this petition but i dont think yet have any republicans been willing to put their names on it. None of the republicans say theyre ready to vote for a clean c. R. , are willing to come to any of the democratic proposals. They would literally lose their elections and be politically defunct. If this clean c. R. , so to speak, if this thing were brought up to a vote by House Speaker john boehner, would it, in fact, pass fairly easily . No. I dont think thats true. A lot of the quotes that you will see, unofficial counts from republicans come from before the shutdown began. Maybe it doesnt make a ton of sense. But some of these guys from moderate districts were ready to cave that night. Now that they are locked in with the rest of the parties in both chambers on a shutdown, now that theyre already receiving the political blame for it, they want Something Else from it. Some of these guys, ive talked to them. And theyre not willing to deal on this. The idea that democrats need to keep this impression its so confusing that theyre able to do it. But were not going to get what they say. There are enough republicans for all the talk you hear about this being 30 conservative Republicans Holding the entire conference, there are far fewer moderate republicans willing to bend. The Republican Party rift becoming more and more public, a little nastier. Ted cruz seems to be bearing the brunt of a lot of this. This is new yorks peter king just yesterday. Take a listen. We have to take a stand here. We cannot allow our party to be taken over by the likes of ted cruz and rand paul. These are isolationists, i consider them rhinos. How damaging could this rift be to the Republican Party to the partys brand as a whole after all of this subsides . I think were seeing the results of that rift right now. You have the conservatives and moderates. Now you see a rift between the house and Senate Republicans. Senate republicans are getting fed up with waiting for the house to act and move forward. After the white house rejected their proposal, theyre moving they moved ahead with one. That was rebuffed by House Republicans. As far as what this does to the brand, it depends on who youre talking to. Moderate republicans would argue that the conservative wing is damaging the party as a whole. Senator majority leader harry reid holding a News Conference right now. Lets listen in. Republican offers going around or discussions with my senators. I called senator alexander and said, whats going on . To shorten the story here, he said, im representing senator mcconnell. And later in the evening, he asked if i would meet with him and senator schumer and senator mcconnell. And i said, yes. We met at 9 00 this morning. The conversations were extremely cordial but very preliminary, of course. Nothing conclusive. But i hope that our talking is some solace to the American People and to the world. This hasnt happened until now. Senator mcconnell asked to meet with me, i was happy to do that. This should be seen as something very positive. Even though we dont have anything done yet and a long ways to go before anything like that will happen thats a relative term. In minutes, hours, days, were trying to figure out a way to go forward. Susan collins is one of my favorite senators, democrat or republican. I appreciate her efforts as always to find a consensus. But the plan that she suggested that ive seen and is in writing is not going to go anyplace at this stage. Two good things in it. Number within, one, it opens th government and number two, extends the debt limit. I want to make sure that people here understand that we have some problems with that as does the white house with the socalled collins plan. As i explained to senator mcconnell and senator alexander this morning, theyre not doing us a favor by reopening the government. Theyre not doing us a favor by extending the debt ceiling. Thats part of our jobs. Thats why weve said, open the government and let us pay our bills and we need to do that before we have any agreement on what goes after that. This is not a concession. This is basically doing our jobs. This is what were supposed to do. Default is four days away. And i say again, im grateful and thankful senator mcconnell reached out to me. I was happy to do that. I had a piece of legislation on the floor today to extend the debt ceiling for a year. Its hard for me to comprehend, but every republican voted against this. This was a motion to proceed to the measure so that we could debate it. If they had allowed us to invoke cloture on this, we would have 30 hours, use every minute if we wanted to, to see if we could come up with something. They just voted no. Now, procedurally, you know how it works around here. Thats not easy. To move forward. I cant imagine why they did that. Defaulting our debt will risk millions of americans jobs, not thousands. Not tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands. Millions of jobs. Social security checks senator majority leader harry reid there updating all of us on those budget negotiations. I want to bring in alabama republican congressman mo brooks who has been listening to some of what the Senate Majority leader had to say. Congressman, let me get your initial reaction to what we heard there from senator reid. Well, im puzzled by it. Its clear hes on a different wavelength than we are or the rest of the country should be. This fight is about the solvency of our country. This fight will determine where were going to be decades from now. Were on a path to bankruptcy as a country and weve got to get our spending under control. Now, you can get it under control by trying to restrict obama care, if thats the way you want to take it. Or any other numbers of programs that you may want to cut spending concerning. But the big picture is were going to have a federal government in solvency and bankruptcy if we dont change our path. And the president s own comptroller general earlier this year warned congress that we are on an unsustainable path. Lets talk about spending here. Im sure you would acknowledge as the cbo has indicated that the past two years at least, spending in this country has fallen to a smaller percentage of the gdp since any Administration Since eisenhower. I would assume youre aware of that, correct . I am aware of our spending trends. Im also aware that over the last five years, we have average deficits in excess of 1 trillion a year. Msnbc, how long could yall stay in business if year after year after year 30 of your operational costs was borrowed money . Youd go out of business. Same thing for the federal government. Lets talk about the issue here because there are a lot of folks out there who say some of the points youre making are valid. However, this is probably not the best method by which to make those points. Refusing to raise the debt ceiling, refusing to open the government i would love to do it in the normal course. However, the other side of the aisle has made it very clear that anytime we try to reduce spending or do something that is financially responsible, theyre going to ignore it and not even vote on it. The only leverage we have to cajole the senate into doing its job, to protect america from a bankruptcy, is the debt ceiling, continuing resolution, appropriation bills and things of that nature, things the senate has to vote on. Sounds like youre saying what were witnessing right now is a method of last resort by House Republicans . You guys feel this is the only way by which to get your way, correct . This is the only way that we can preserve the country that it took centuries for our fo forefathers to build. Greece is further down this debt path. They have 27 unemployment. Cyprus is further along this debt path. Recently they seized as much as 60 of the monies in the savings and checking accounts. I mentioned the president s own comptroller general who in writing warned us were on an unsustainable financial path. Is this the best way to correct said path . No. The best way is for those people who are financially irresponsible to do their homework, to look at economic theories, to look at the practicality of where we are and to voluntarily come up with solutions to reduce this deficit that faces our future. Why not open the government and do that . Why not open the government and have that conversation . Past experience has shown us without any doubt that the only way to get those in the United States congress and the white house who are financially irresponsible and Pay Attention is to do so in this kind of mechanism. I dont like it. Continuing resolution adversely affected our economy. Not raising the debt ceiling is going to have an adverse effect on our economy. This is going to destroy our nation. How real is the threat of default . Totally within the discretion of the president of the United States. He does not have to default on our obligations to our creditors unless he wants to. Theres a general accounting office, opinion from 1985 that says that. Moodys this week, if youre familiar with their report, they also say that theres not a credit risk unless the president wants to default. Now, the president uses default in a much broader term than people who are in the Financial Sector do. Default means youre not paying your credit obligations in the Financial Sector. The president uses it to say, were not paying all the things that we want to spend money on. Thats his deflection of default. Stand by. Thats an argument ive heard a lot of. Kayla tausche, i want to bring you back in. Weve heard from congressmen who have said that. Is that true . Under the 14th amendment the president does have the right to ask the federal reverse to print more money to pay for that Interest Payment that comes due on october 31st. Some are saying, why doesnt the president just ask the fed . The problem is, guess who has the enforcement right under the 14th amendment . Congress. If the president decides to print more money, congress can say, were striking that payment down. The risk is too high. Thats why the executive branch said its not an option. I think the markets have Given Congress way too much credit. They are very lucky when the headline hit this morning that the proposal fell short and that there were no more talks and that it was up to congress to find another proposal to bring back to the president , theyre very lucky because if that had happened, at 9 29 on friday morning, you can bet the markets would have cost them. If you think about the day the republicans in the house struck down t. A. R. P. In 2008, 1. 2 trillion of wealth was destroyed in the stock market. They went back and they passed it in due course. The market opens monday morning. If we dont have a deal by then, hopefully th