had already stopped the trip planning by that point. >> and when did that happen? >> stopping the trip planning? >> yeah. >> on may 13th. >> okay. and how did you hear about that? >> i was called by a colleague in the -- the vice president's chief of staff's office and told to stop the trip planning. >> okay. and as i understand it, it was the assistant to the chief of staff? >> that's correct. >> okay. and so you didn't hear about it from general kellogg or the chief of staff or the president or the vice president, you heard about it from mr. short's assistant? >> that's right. and did you have any knowledge of the reasoning for stopping the trip? >> i asked my colleague why we should stop trip planning and why the vice president would not be attending, and i was informed that the president had decided the vice president would not attend the inauguration. >> okay. and do you know why the president decided -- >> no, she did not have that information. >> okay. and ultimately the vice president went to canada for a usmca event? >> that's right.