both thought it was important that the president released the aid before the ukrainians found out about it. >> ambassador volker, is that also your recollection? >> yes, it is. >> that it wasn't until the politico article that -- >> that's correct. i received a text message from one of my ukrainian counterparts on the 29th forwarding that article. that's the first time they ra e raised it with of me. >> can you share with us your communications in that time period about withholding the aid? >> yes. i didn't have any communication with the ukrainians about the hold on aid until after they raised it with me for the same reason tim just gave, the hope that we could get it taken care of ourselves before it became something that they became aware of. inside the u.s. government, i was aware that the hold was placed, i was aware of that on july 18th. it was referenced at an interagency meeting. i got a readout from that