i think that's probably the most doable next step. >> well, ambassador, look, you lived this as ambassador, and you know how this is. there are people who argue if we think that the concern is that we're going to give vladimir putin a reason to escalate, he doesn't need a reason to escalate. he can make up a reason to escalate. what do you make of that argument? and where does that leave us in terms of the decisions, the very difficult decisions, that are being made right now within this administration? >> that is absolutely right. we need to remember that we are much stronger than putin or than russia in all respects except for nuclear, where we are peer powers. with nato, we're stronger. i don't think putin wants to strike out at nato right now. we need to provide ukraine with everything it's asking for to make sure that putin is stuck there and has to ultimately