we'll makes me very concerned is us looking at a chechnya situation. that's why when russia's forces wanted endeavors to -- it's a long running russian tactic of unleashing huge amounts of artillery and rocket fire on two urban centers. essentially, driving the civilian population out, to terrorize innocent people, so they leave the city. if that's the approach they take in kyiv, it will work overtime. they'll be horrific costs in human life, and i have to think it will be a -- victory for putin. he'll be more isolated, the ukrainian people will hate him more, but that's the scenario i fear. nari>> you can hubble wonder, pn sees this, for instance,, kharkiv he seizes kyiv, the capital city of ukraine, and then what? he has a country, a capital