sayhe he was freelancing, holme is going to contradict that testimony directly and say, no, it was the president who directed it, and i heard him say that. >> and more than that, mike mcfaul, there's a story we learned today. sondland trying to arrange a meeting with his equivalent in kiev, trying to make sure there's no note-taker present. how big a break is that from the norm you were raised on? >> well, first, just to underscore this really important thing,hi the president's voice w is directly involved in telling his lieutenants here, one of his three amigos what to do, and they're all giving each other high fives. that's a great tidbit you picked up on,yo brian, in david holmes testimony, by the avway, anothe guy that used to work with me in moscow. m everybody says nobody ever heard of him. i'd heard of him before. first-rate star, going to a lot of riskt- to do this by the way. he's a mid-career person with a lot of time in the government ahead of him.