seen so far. there is no good defense to these crimes. the only thing officers can do is either one, try to flip on each other, try to make it clear that they are being characterized as lone wolf's, but lone wolf storm roman packs. the problems that we see in these videos is a systemic throughout the police department, an american policing in general, they can try to point that out. the other thing that might be tricky to actually get to trial time is, the second degree murder charge isn't going to be easy to prove. but i trust the prosecutors -- cannon would indict these officers for it. >> david, what would it take to prove the second-degree murder charge? >> to prove second-degree murder, you have to prove the officers knowingly caused tyre nichols death. that sounds obvious, but it can be tricky when you're actually in a courtroom. that's why you don't typically see officers charged in this way.