New polls show no one smelling like roses. 70 disapproval rating. 70 , put the fault with republicans. Their numbers are declining. I know the American People are tired of it. Lord knows im teared of ired o. This is not a complicated fpiec of business. Eyeing the debt ceiling. All about the debt ceiling. A all this talk about default. Its nonsense. Demagoguery. False demagoguery. When i hear people trying to downplay the skon conventions of that. Nonsense. A lot of demagoguery. Irresponsible. Alternatives are popping up. Some discussion about my powers under the 14th amendment. Thats going to make people nervous. Very hard to get into sound bites. There is no clear way out of this. There are no magic bullets here. We are now on day eight of the Government Shutdown. Day act of the Government Shutdown. Our goal wasnt to shut down the government. I dont think we should default on our debt we have got to stop repeating this pattern. The American People are tired of it. Lord knows im tired of it. Tonight Senate Majority leader harry reid introduce aid perfectly reasonable, one sentence bill that would raise the debt ceiling until the end of next year which is a perfectly reasonable time frame for a typical debt ceiling increase in the past. The senate will vote on that perfectly reasonable bill this week. Mostly for nostalgia reasons. But the most important thing that happened to is that john boehner admitted the new republican talking point is a lie. Here is boehner on sunday. Every modern history has negotiated over debt limit. Debt limits have been used to force big policy changes in washington. Uhuh. As i explained in last nights rewrite. That statement is not true. No president in modern history had how to negotiate over a debt limit increase. Debt limits have never, never, been used to force big policy changes in washington. Raising the debt ceiling was never once seriously in doubt before speaker John Boehners house of representatives. John boehner rewrote that lie he was telling. This way. Over the last 40 years, 27 times, the debt limit has been used to carry significant significant policy changes that would in fact reduce spending and put us on a saner fiscal path. President Reagan Oneill in the. President bush in 1990. Went out to Andrew Air Force base got into a long debate and negotiation with democrats here in congress. Bill clinton went through this three times in the 1990s. President obama and i sat down in 2011. And, had a serious negotiation. The debt limit has been used to carry significant policy changes. Those exact boehner words. Thats a significant change. From what boehner had previously said. And it land him more safely within the parliamentary history of debt ceiling votes as i explained here last night. See you should have been here last night. But, the most accurate way to say it, is simply that the debt ceiling has been included as ate completely noncontroversial and frequently invisible element in a, much larger bills, generally having something to do with the budget. Something important to dupe wo the budget. The white house didnt have to watch the rewrite to know it. Everybody there knew it. Today is the first day the president made the point very clear. Point we made here last night. If you look at the history. People posture about the debt ceiling frequently. But the way the debt ceiling often got passed you would stick the debt ceiling on to a budget negotiation once it was completed. People figured i dont want to take a bunch of tough votes to cut programs, raise taxes then have to take a debt ceiling vote. Let me do it all at once. But it wasnt a situation in which, if ive dont if ive dont get what i want then i am going to let us default. Thats whats changed. And thats what we learned in 2011. And that is absolutely troupe. In his press conference today, the president described what republicans seem to think the word negotiation means. Speaker boehner, at least some faction of the republicans in the house and maybe some in the senate, are holding out for a a negotiation in theory but in fact basically democrats give a lot of concessions to republicans, republicans dont give anything. And then thats thats dubbed as compromise. The reason that democrats have to give is because theyre worried that the government is going to stay shut down or or u. S. Government is going to default. And and, again. That you can dress it up any way you want. If thats the theory that the republicans are Going Forward with, then it is not going to work. I am not going to breach a basic principle that would weaken the presidency, change our democracy, and do great damage to ordinary people. Just in order to go along with what the House Republicans are talking about. Weakening the presidency as the president put it is exactly what the House Republicans are determined to do. And that is why john boehner is ineffect saying that anything that doesnt weaken the presidency in a loss for john boehner and his republicans. Well the president said today what the president said today was if there is Unconditional Surrender by republicans he will sit down and talk to us. Thats not the way our government works. Joy reid and arie, this has become so absurd. Boehner describing Unconditional Surrender. Something he was willing to do. Get the debt ceiling raised. Never let the government shut down. Heap is saying i didnt co here to shut the government down and not raise the debt ceiling and hatch ve us default. Then dont. John boehner, man up. Explain the call. Not the way we govern. Sit down and let the grownups raise the debt ceiling the way they have done uncontroversially. Over and over again. Im insisting this is about weakening the presidency. The republicans created the modern imperial presidency under richard nixon. They see ruining the presidency is increasingly difficult. Demographics, hispanic vote. Positions on immigration, all sorts of things. Womens issues, abortion, so forth. They have just decided it is not in Republican Partys interest to have a strong presidency. We are going to make the presidency as difficult as the it can be . Yeah, look. This is a sad time to follow politics and also an interesting time. Andnt the and the thesis you put forth. They lost the popular vote in five of six elections for president. They know they have a lot of people who are jerry mannederge. And radical changes in the senate house, super majority requirement, gives extra power to the minority. The conversations would this hurt them in the next election . Hurt them in the presidency . Or hurt them holding the majority . You dont need a majority if your goal is sabotage. You dont. You can do it with the minority. You can do it in the senate with obstruction. In boehners caucus, this guy must be lying, dont have the votes. We know he does. Wont bring it to the floor. The bare majority, though they lost popularity in the house, works. We have systemic problems underlying it. What was most interesting about John Boehners staements tement. He doesnt believe it. Several as go. He said the opposite, not deficit cutting, it was obama care. The deficit has been cut by half, the president said today. Lets go to more what the president said in his news conference. He talked about the concept of ransom, something we are going to be hearing in every president ial press conference as long as this crisis goes on key members of congress and house of representatives, dont get to demand ransom in exchange for their jobs. Two of their jobs are passing a budget and make sure america is paying its bills. They dont also get to say, you know, unless you get me what the voters rejected in the last election i will cause a recession. Thats not how it works. Joy, everything we are talking about here, keeping the government open. The debt ceiling. These are all unique congressional powers. The president is just a signature on something the Congress Must do. It is their action to take. What are they even looking down the street at the white house for on this . For cover. Because right now, they need to d demonstrate to their base. I asked that rhetorically. I want to make that clear haha. A rhetorical. Wicked dumb sounding question in its way. Go ahead. Its true. The Republican Party, they understand they have unpopular positions. They cannot enact their dream world through the legislative process. Cannot win elections to enact policies. To think. They believe this is the way it should be. They cannot do it. They are now essentially taking hostages. This is beyond the hostage situation. They have shot a hostage. They went ahead and shut the government down. Having done that, you cannot then go to the hostage negotiator, say why wont you talk to me . Sit down have a conversation. You shot one of the hostages already. What in any ones rational thinking makes you believe they wouldnt go ahead and breach the debt ceiling. Several are saying its fine to do that. We understand these are not people who can be negotiated with. They want unpopular policies forced on to the majority in the country and forced even on to the majority in their party. The president said something clarifying to me. About the whole 14th amendment issue. We discussed last time the debt ceiling was at issue. What about indications that the president probably does have the power within the constitution to simply ineffect raise the debt ceiling himself . I was a real, you know, interested fan of that idea. It was because it was novel. Never seen it before. I didnt see anything wrong with it. The president thinks there is swrou wrong with it. He made that clear today. Talking about making, how would you fool if yeel if you were bu house if you werent sure of the title. Lets listen. If you are buying a house and you are not sure whether the seller has title to the house you are going to be pretty nervous about buying it. And at minimum, you would want to a much cheaper price to buy that house because you wouldnt beep su sure whether o you are going to on it. Same thing is true, if i am buying treasury bills from the u. S. Government. Here i am sitting here, what if there is a Supreme Court case deciding that these arent valid. These are you know, valid legal instruments. Obligating the u. S. Government to pay for it. Arie, there he is doing what a president should do. Taking every step out. He has to take it to go. Well, wait a minute. I remember last time around. Bill clinton off handedly saying the president should be able to do that. I was thinking, you know i think the president should be able to do that and should do it. Now you see some one of greater prudence than i, much greater, i think is completely right about this. The way he put that today. I dont seep h how you argue wi that. What he is saying is a financial fact. Forget the constitutional. Reality to it if you try to exercise it that its seriously problematic. We know that. We are dealing with an area, a great deal of Financial Information abut the price of certainty versus less certainty versus a tossup. Thats why Mortgage Backed securities have higher interests and tauss. Argentinan bonds dont couldnt the same ice american bonds cut. When you violate that certainty, markets react to that. That is a fact. As a lawyer, a lot of lawyers who disagree. As a lawyer i do think that when you are the president and you are in a situation where you have conflicting constitutional demands from congress, you have Higher Authority to act in emergency powers. By which ive mean the congress is saying, here under law spend. Here, under law dont pay your debts. Right, those are conflicting demand. Debts are due. Thats a constitutional point. To your point and president ial point. The constitutional point as a practical matter for 401 k s, markets may come second to the fact of the economic sabotage. The other point about congress here, congress is not static. The game john boehner is playing is dangerous. He raised the bar on what it means to oppose obama. We moved from a vote, debate. You have to obstruct and deep feet everything. Im not sure whether debt ceiling votes are for him in the long run. Jimmy reid, and arie. You are here for your wisdom and expertise, as always. Also, because you just, you wouldnt return my emaim. Emaim. I send you an email that is two weeks old. And you have a big fan out there. A personal thing. You got a big fan out there. I want youd to know about. I mram oblame outlook. Joe russell. Big joy reid favenn. Everything i have to tell you i have to tell you on the air. You wont accept personal emails from me. Outlook does not ak set yocc. Praise from the king, bill russell all. Haw i will search for the email and send it back. I will send it again. Personal business is done. Jimmy arie. Thank you. Thank you, lawrence. Coming up. Two of is going toly the the way out. The leadership cannot do it. Which means it is all up to the staff. It is going to have to save them. In the rewrite tonight, another episode of sodomy, virginia time. Virginias sodomy virginia style. I want to ask what the new state tourism slogan is going to be. Because, virginia is for lovers. Is bull [ bleep ]. I love having a free checked bag with my united mileageplus explorer card. Ive saved 75 in checked bag fees. [ delavane ] priority boarding is really important to us. You can just get on the plane and relax. [ julian ] having a card that doesnt charge you foreign transaction fees saves me a ton of money. 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Her valuable assets were staying. And selling her car wouldnt fly. We helped sydney manage her debt and prioritize her goals, so she could really turn up the volume on her dreams today. And tomorrow. So lets see what we can do about that. Remodel. Motorcycle. [ female announcer ] some questions take more than a bank. They take a banker. Make a my financial priorities appointment today. Because when people talk, great things happen. Hearty cheeseburger. Creamy thai Style Chicken with rice. MexicanStyle Chicken tortilla. If you think campbells 26 new soups sound good, imagine how they taste. Mm mm good so i cant afford to have germy surfaces. But a fresh sheet of bounty duratowel leaves this surface cleaner than a germy dishcloth. Its durable. And its 3 times cleaner. So ditch your dishcloth and switch to bounty duratowel. Republican leaders are sending mixed messages on what they are willing to negotiate over to reopen the government or raise the debt limit. The long and short of it is there is going to be a negotiation here. We cant raise the debt ceiling without doing something about whats driving us to borrow more money and to live beyond our means. Last week Republican Leadership was focussed exclusively on the Affordable Care act. As the one and only problem to reopening the government or raising the debt ceiling. And now i dont know what they want. Democratic senators have said repeatedly, obama care is the law of the land and basically we should get used it. Let me also point out to all of you that the budget control act is also the law of the land. Yeah. Thanks for pointing that. As Republican Leaders fail to present a cope heherent positio. The members of congress theyre supposed to be leading, are becoming increasingly incoherent. Mine household budget, some bills have to be paid, some bills we can defer or pay partially. I think paying interest on the debt has to be paid. I think paying Social Security payments have to be paid. But i dont think paying the secretary of energys travel expenses have to be paid 100 cents on the dollar. We are not going to default on the public debt. That doesnt mean we have to pay every bill the day it comes in 100 cents on the dollar. Innane comments like that are leaving some veteran republican senators with absolutely no hope that the house of representatives will find their way out of the trap that they set for themselves. Lets find a way that we can sit down. I dont care if its apin tpoin people. Informal conversations back and forth. There should be a way out of both of these deadend that we are in. Stow why dont we do this sooner rather than later . And why doesnt the senate lead . I have Great Respect for the other side of the capitol. But i understand the contradictions are there and difficulties that the speaker has. I am in great sympathy there. Why dont we get together . Why dont we sit down . Joining me is Mark Patterson former chief of staff to treasury secretary. And who is also former chief of staff, Senate Finance committee. Mike lofgreen, long time congressional aide, in clueding six years on the Senate Budget committee. Mark patterson, you worked in the majority leaders office. You know everything about how this stuff works. What, what is the staff doing backstage the cspan cameras are never going to find while their bosses are posturing the staffs know on both side we have got to fix this . The staffs are freaking out, lawrence. Yes, there is that. First. You and i have worked on debt loan increases in our time. On this one i have never been more concerned that we are going to go off the tracks.