this is not just rogue giuliani self-dealing in ukraine. he's an agent of the president, the president is his client. anything rudy giuliani does is on behalf of the president, so rudy is president trump, president trump is rudy. >> joining our discussion now is barbara mcquade, the former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan and an msnbc legal contributor and john heilemann is back with us. barbara, what happened to the criminal investigation of rudy giuliani today? >> well, i think it likely got stronger. i think that as you said if i was a prosecutor in the southern district of new york i'd want to get my hands on that transcript of what bill taylor had to say today. we got his opening statement 15 pages of where he talked about rudy giuliani being the leader of this alternative world of foreign policy that was going on at the same time leading the foreign policy in a very dark place to put together this quid pro quo, this idea that in