implodes, or whether he somehow survives this politically. i'm not even talking about conviction and removal in the senate. it's about them protecting their own power. for that reason the president's going to be able to continue to do a lot of terrible things as long as he can keep his base with him. he'll keep most of them, i'm sad to say, in line too. >> i guess that's the better question. at one point to republican voters, not even republican voters, trump voters start to say, you know what, i'm tired of this. is there a point where they would change their mind? i'm curious about something we learned from nda diplomat bill taylor. i'm curious about what we might learn more about it. he talks about, lisa, being on a conference call, a video conference call while still in ukraine. there's somebody from omb in the room, they're off camera and they say we were told not to release the funds. the president told the chief of staff who told omb.