bit about what admiral was talking about, as nato acts as one, and not in this particular case, russia is assuming they're going to active one -- but not the moment. there's a bit of a difference. some of it is coming from germany, who seems to have concerns about taking to heart of a line on this. >> i'm not sure that's entirely correct. first off, thank you for having me on. from when i can see, i think i've been watching this fairly closely, the german policy maker, implementers, in the machine room, have been working very closely with the administration for months designing a whole array. which is quite a technical business. there are a couple things that the germans aren't very keen on -- their they disagree with other