they may be intelligent. unfortunately, intelligence doesn't help you when you've got these enormous internal and external pressures to stay in line with the leader. i think it has a moral quality. people who have high moral qualities and valleys do standup, sometimes consider them heroic. they finally say this is not right, as liz cheney did. i think we have to question morality of the trump followers because the morality is not strong enough to overcome their self interest [inaudible] >> when we see some of the transcript, for example, of fbi interviews that attacked the capitol, it is stunning just hell low functioning their intelligence is in the information that they have processed that led them to that point. >> well, yes.