>> this concern about blowback is something that's been raised for 30 years now. any time the u.s. has talked about engaging in cyber operations, the response has been, no, we can't do that, we have all these vulnerabilities, it's going to come back and haunt us. our adversaries have not done it this way. russia, china, iran, north korea, they've all launched cyber attacks on us without any concern for blowback. when we look at the evidence of the last 20 years, cyber has not led to escalation so far, and when it comes to these groups that constrain themselves, does anybody believe that? when they're going after critical infrastructure, what they're going after these food cooperatives, when they're going after colonial pipeline, we basically tell them that they get to decide whether it's critical or not critical. and they get to decide whether they go after it or not. that gives way too much freedom to these cyber criminals.