both for a while about this big bill, these two bills passing through congress. and shelia, there has been, in my view, sort of a mismatch between the discussion of the cost of the bill, and the value contained in the bill or the return on investment in the bill. and i'm not arguing for one size of bill or other, but there is this erstwhile republican obsession with debt that shows up, sometimes, usually with respect to social spending, is entirely forgotten when it comes to military spending or wars or tax cuts. and so now we're in this battle between a $3.5 billion, trillion-bill and a $1.5 trillion bill or whatever it is, but we have lost sort of what i think is the correct way of thinking about any government spending, and that is, what does it get us? >> well, that's a big -- that's a reflection of a problem that i feel has afflicted both the business world, but also lawmakers in washington, which is this trap of short-term thinking. so, of course, a lot of the very