Democrat wins in ohio, michigan, or give me a name. I like tim ryan in ohio, and i like my mayor out of palm beach out of miami in florida. Nick, katherine, harold, that will do it for hardball. Chris matthews is back here on monday. All in with chris hayes starts right now. Tonight on all in. He wanted to have dinner because he wanted to stay on. Dinner with comey. He mentioned that he had been invited to the white house to have dinner with the president and that he was uneasy with that. New reporting contradicting the president s claims. And tonight, new questions about oval office recordings. Did President Trump record his conversations with former fbi Director Comey . As the president threatens his former fbi director with tapes. Plus, as the Deputy Attorney general reportedly signals no
special prosecutor should we do the pledge . Raise your hand. Who else was asked to take the donald trump pledge . Then david cay johnston. And my extended interview with senator Elizabeth Warren. The American People want us to get to the bottom of this. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. It certainly seemed like a threat. President trump today sending a warning shot to his former fbi director, tweeting james comey better hope that there are no tapes of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press. Asked if the president had secretly recorded his conversations with comey, who was leading the fbi investigation into possible collusion between the Trump Campaign and russia until trump fired him on tuesday, White House Press secretary sean
spicer today pointedly did not rule out the possibility. Did President Trump record his conversations with former fbi Director Comey . I assume youre referring to the tweet, and ive talked to the president. The president has nothing further to add on that. Why did he say that . Why did he tweet that . What should we interpret from that . As i mentioned, the president has nothing further to add on that. Are there Recording Devices in the oval office or in the residence . As i said, for the third time, there is nothing further to add on that. Does he think its appropriate to threaten someone like mr. Comey not to speak . I dont think thats thats not a threat. He simply stated a fact. The tweet speaks for itself. Im moving on. Im hoping you can answer this in a yes or no fashion. Is the president of the United States currently recording conversations take is place in the oval office . I think the point i made with respect to the tweet is the president has no further comment on this. The last time a president who fired the people investigating his conduct was revealed to have secret tape recordings, things did not end well. That got there. Mmhmm. Because i didnt ask that question. Mmhmm. What about the idea that in a tweet you said that there might be taperecordings . Well, that i cant talk about. I wont talk about that. All i want is for comey to be honest, and i hope he will be, and im sure he will, i hope. Joining me now is john dean, former white House Counsel to president richard nixon, who knew a thing about taping things in the white house. John, i cant tell if this is a distraction or a fib or a bluff, but your reaction to the pointed nondenial both from sean spicer and the president himself about taping people in the oval office . It is very hard to believe that hes actually got any kind of formal equipment to record in the oval office. The only thing that occurred to me was if hes capable and understands how to turn on his Recording Device on his smartphone, he might have had that on when they were having dinner. But i dont i just cant imagine any president commencing a taping operation in the Oval Office Given what happened to
nixon. I just its so imprudent, and it was so costly, and it ultimately comes out. We should say that theres a history of donald trump dabbling in surveillance. Two great pieces in buzzfeed, inside Donald TrumpsSurveillance Operations and sources donald trump listened in on phone lines at maralago. Although that said, i think the imprudence here is pretty clear. Let me ask you this. Theres also a degree to which the white house seems to be having a hard time getting their story straight in a fundamental way. What do you make of that . Well, it seems they have a president who is out of control, who moves at his own strokes. He doesnt brief his staff on what hes going to do, doesnt talk it through with them and do any kind of planning. He has no sense of really how the presidency operates and how to effectively do these things. Eventually hes going to get burned so many times, he will figure it out. But the Learning Process is just one eruption and more chaos every week and chasing down lies. Its really quite striking. Earlier today, sean spicer said that the president is very clear. He believes the notion theres collusion is a hoax. Its been reaffirmed by several people including senator grassley. Later in the day senator glassrys spokesperson says he has not spoken to President Trump but what hes learned related to investigations into interference referred to the notion of collusion as a hoax. So every time they sort of try to cite some authority outside of their sphere, it gets knocked down, it appears. Thats true. And, chris, in the end, what caught nixon was not some blatant criminal act. He was caught in a lie after he hung himself out on a position, took a Firm Position month after month on it, and then finally got caught in the lie, thats when he really had to end his presidency. What lie was that
operating procedure from his business days. Im surprised he didnt ask him to sign a noncompete or a nondisclosure of some sort, to fill it out. But i think, you know, its a combination of the ignorance and arrogance as i see it. All right. John dean, thanks as always for your time. Thank you. Joining me now, matthew miller, former aide to Attorney General eric holder and Justice Department spokesperson and clint watts. Matthew, let me start with you. Something you said earlier today. You said one thing i learned at doj about comey, he leaves a protective paper trail whenever he deems something inappropriate happened. Stay tuned. What did you mean by that . There was this kind of remarkable incident that started in 2005 when the Bush Administration was debating whether to approve torture or not, waterboarding and other torture techniques. And jim comey had a meeting with the Attorney General and he, along with others, approved
those techniques but apparently told the Attorney General that he thought it was a bad idea to actually use them and it would end up being embarrassing to the country and the administration. After that, he went back to his office and wrote an email to his chief of staff, which, you know, Deputy Attorneys general dont usually do that. He wrote this long email explaining the conversation. It was basically the modernday version of a memo to the file. And in 2009 when the New York Times reported that comey and others had authorized these techniques, magically they got their hands on this email, and i think what i took from that event was comey had the foresight to write that email, and then when he left the Justice Department, to print it out, put it in a file, and hold on to it until four years later when the times went to write on this and magically they got a hold of it. So i think were going to see more of that from him in this instance. That is a remarkable story. Clint, i guess the question we have this dinner, and weve got a sort of he said he said situation. The president of the United States and people close to jim
comey. Who do you believe . Im going to go with track record, which is fbi Director Comey since just based on today, i have no idea if theres any truth to anything President Trump said. It doesnt make any sense to make that Loyalty Pledge. Any president that understood the relationship of the fbi, the Department Of Justice to the president and their role, which is to the public first, to serve the public first, its fidelity, bravery, integrity. Thats the motto of the fbi. Director comey is going to follow that. Hes not going to respond well to being pressured like that. Even having the invite to dinner, which you heard Director Clapper talk about, made him uncomfortable. Hes going to have issue with that, and every time trump, i think, tried to bring him under his umbrella, comey would naturally push himself away. So you dont think that he requested the dinner . You dont think thats plausible . No, not at all. The president said twice now he said it in interviews with lester hold, and he said it in the letter famously in which he fired Director Comey that the
director told him three times he was not under investigation. Could you conceive of any plausible scenario in which that might have happened . No. I cant imagine why the director would say that other than his testimony where he confirmed that they had some active investigation going on with his campaign. Thats the only time he did that, and Director Comey is particularly careful, as we just heard with his words. Hes not going to make these statements which put him in a position of his own compromise. Given comeys level of skill in navigating this that you have identified, matt, and its really a remarkable thing to go back and look at his 2007 testimony when he talked about that famous night at the bed of john ashcroft. He has an ability to preserve his reputation amidst many controversial things. What do you anticipate the next chapter of this story is . Well, i mean, look what weve seen in just the last 24 hours. Weve already seen leaks about this loyalty request. Weve already seen leaks about the request for the dinner came from trump. Weve seen a number of pieces of information already. But i think given look, he does like the spotlight. Thats one thing about him that i think people in both parties agree with. I suspect that we will eventually see comey at that table in a congressional hearing with the lights on and the cameras rolling again as he did in 2007 and as he did on march 20th when he confirmed this investigation and, i think, started the chain of events that led to him eventually being fired. I think thats probably where this all ends up. Thats a great point. We know that hes declined an invitation for a closed session with the intelligence committee, i think the Senate Intelligence committee. But you also think that ultimately we will see james comey giving his side of the story under oath before congress . Yeah, and i also think for Director Comey, he would turn down a closed session because he would rather be in an open session. I mean his thats interesting. That is interesting. His pattern is to come out and talk to the american public. Sure is. Hes done this repeatedly. If i were in his position, thats exactly what i would do. No closed door. No rumors going back and forth. Right. No leaks coming out about what you said. No. Whatever i actually say is going to be coming out of my mouth, and youre going to thats why you think he turned down the invite for the closed door session . I think its both that and he wants time. He wanted to see how this is going to play out. There was reporting about that being turned down because the message was sent because he probably wouldnt get a particularly warm reception after what happened. What do you think the mood is there right now . Well, it was dumb to ever think he should go to the fbi headquarters. Thats just a very novice white house staff. Weve already tried that at the cia. We saw how that went with trump. Now to go to the fbi and try and talk to them or sway them and win them over is a disaster. I think the mood right now theyre going to be extra vigilant in their independence. Theyre going to pursue the investigation the way it should, to its logical conclusion. And i think theyre also trying to figure out how they can insulate themselves against the doj, that you cant really tell
how biased they are or not. So much comes down to Rod Rosenstein right now. Matthew, you were on this show the day that comey had the Press Conference about hillary clinton, in which he opined about how careless she was. Derogatory information about a person not charged is the phrasing of Rod Rosenstein in the letter condemning comey. What do you make of people now coming around to that conclusion . Well, if everyone came around to that conclusion for legitimate means, then fine. But lets be honest. Thats not why Rod Rosenstein wrote that memo. Thats not why jim comey was fired. That was an excuse to fire him for something else. I think actually, you know, you expect this kind of thing from donald trump. You even expect it from Jeff Sessions. The person that im most disappointed in and that if you talk to anyone else that worked at the Department Of Justice, theyre more disappointed in, is Rod Rosenstein. He was suppose to be the snushlgist that would protect the department from political interference, and he completely
buckled to pressure and gave donald trump the excuse he needed to fire jim comey. You feel the same way . Yeah. Its interesting that comey once had rosensteins job, and that was with the ashcroft scenario. When he did the opposite. He did the opposite. He chose country over party. It doesnt look that way this week. Matthew miller and clint watts thank you for being here tonight. Ahead, who else has been asked to take the trump Loyalty Pledge . More on President Trumps obsession with loyalty and how republicans are still in congre still falling in line after this break. Strut past that aisle for the Allergy Relief that starts working in as little as 30 minutes and contains the best oral decongestant. Live claritin clear, with claritind. Youre going to be hanging out in here. So if you need anything, text me. Do you play . Use the chase mobile app to send money in just a tap, to friends at more banks then ever before. You got next . Chase. Helping you master whats now and whats next. I need the phone thats where i happen to be. To be the one that rings. I need not to be missed phone calls. To not be missed. I need seamless handoff. Canyon software. From reception, to landline, to mobile. I need one number. Not two. Im always moving forward. Because i cant afford to get stuck in the past. Comcast business. Built for business. I read that article. I dont think its inappropriate number one. Did you ask that question . No. No, i didnt. But i dont think it would be a bad question to ask. I think loyalty to the country, loyalty to the United States is important. You know, i mean it depends on how you define loyalty, number one. Number two, i dont know how that got there. Mmhmm. Because i didnt ask that question. The president denies asking fired fbi director james comey to take a Loyalty Pledge, but that account first relayed to the New York Times by Comey Associates has a ring of truth if for no other reason than we know how much this president puts a premium on loyalty. Here was Kellyanne Conway in an interview yesterday. The president expects people who are serving in his administration to be loyal to the country and to be loyal to the administration. Dont forget the president even made his own supporters swear loyalty to him during the campaign. Raise your right hand, everybody. Do you swear that youre going to vote for donald trump tomorrow . Raise that hand. I love you. I love you. All right. You cant go back. The president has also demanded the utmost loyalty from republican lawmakers and by and large theyve submitted. We saw house intelligence chairman devin nunes scrambling
to do the white houses bidding, an embarrassing episode that forced him eventually to recuse himself from the russia probe. Then theres House Oversight chairman jason chaffetz, who has largely refused to investigate the Trump Administration, for example, telling reporters in february the Flynn Situation was, quote, taking care of itself. Only a week earlier, chaffetz himself had been summoned to the white house for an intimate Oval Office Meeting with the president. Im joined now by linda chavez. Linda, do you find behavior of republicans this week surprising . I find it both surprising and disheartening because frankly the only way that this president is going to be stopped from doing the things hes doing, which are irrational, erratic, and dangerous, is for republicans to march up Pennsylvania Avenue and to say to him, stop it. You have got to stop this, mr. President. He is endangering his own
agenda. He is endangering the