Democrats. Members of congress here here from both sides of the aisle to talk about wa happened today. Lets turn back to the breaking news, the Washington Post explosive report that the president of the United States is currently under a Criminal Investigation for the Obstruction Of Justice. Responding in a statement, a spokesman for the president s attorney did not dispute the post report, saying only the fbi leak of information regarding the president is outrageous, inexcusable, and illegal. Joining me now, the Washington Posts sari horwitz, one of the reporters who broke this tire. Sari, this would seem to confirm what james comey appeared to indicate, what many have been sort of hinting at, but squarely you guys have nailed down that apparently Robert Mueller is looking at Obstruction Of Justice. Yes. Youre right, chris, that the former fbi director in his testimony did seem to be laying out a case of possible obstruction. But what we found out that, indeed, the special counsel, Robert Mueller, has expanded,
widened the investigation to look at the president specifically and Obstruction Of Justice. And we know that there are some important interviews this week, including Senior Intelligence officials who are coming before him really as witnesses because of conversations they, like fbi director comey, had with the president about the russia investigation. So these are dan coats, the director of national intelligence, and mike rogers, who is the National Security agency, previous reporting in your paper has indicated both of these men were asked by president in a meeting in the oval office where he asked everyone else to leave, if they could do anything about the Flynn Investigation, a kind of pattern of behavior, if true, very similar to what james comey said about what the president did to him. Yes. Well, no, actually what we reported was that dan coats, who is the director of national intelligence, shortly after he was confirmed, was in the meeting in the oval office with another official, not mike rogers. Im sorry. With another official. And he was asked by the president if he could do something to get comey to back
illegal. The fbi leak of information regarding the president is outrageous, inexcusable and illegal. What do you say to that . As we reported in our story, we have five sources. We dont say where theyre from. We dont identify where theyre from at all. All right. Sari horwitz, excellent reporting. Thank you for making some time tonight. Thank you, chris. Joining me now, former chief Justice Department spokesman matt miller. The line from the white house after the comey testimony was the president is not personally under Criminal Investigation. It now appears to be the case the president is personally under Criminal Investigation. Yeah. I think we talked about the time. That was an obviously stupid statement to make because whatever Donald Trumps status was at the time jim comey last told him he wasnt under investigation, the fact that he fired comey, the fact that now its come to light that he asked him to back off the Flynn Investigation was going to mean he very soon would be under Criminal Investigation if he wasnt already. It was a remarkably, i think
it was just dumb. Theres no other way to say it. To put all of your eggs in the basket of donald trump was vindicated when it was very likely that within a few days, and now, six days later it turns out he wasnt vindicated. In fact, he is under Criminal Investigation. To kasowitzs line, the president s attorney that i just asked sari about, you and i have talked before about investigators keeping investigations closely held because to not be prejudicial. But its also the case as an investigation widens, and this is something youve said on this show. As an investigation widens, necessarily more and more people will have knowledge of parts of it as investigators start interviewing more and more people. That, to me, is a real problem for the white house at this point. Yeah. Its absolutely the case. I mean this is what happens because when you go out and start interviewing people, not only do more people know about whats happening, but they know what youre investigating because of the questions you ask them. So when you call dan coats and when you call mike rogers and
when you call Richard Legity and tell them we want to talk to you about your conversations with the president when he asked you to intervene, when he asked you to make public statements, its very clear that the president s under Obstruction Of Justice. As sari noted in the last segment, there are five people confirmed in that story. If you look at where this investigation is likely to go now, its likely to go to people like Jeff Sessions, who might have talked with the president , it seems, given that he wouldnt answer the question yesterday. Its likely to go to the upper reaches of the white house where you have to assume that Director Mueller is going to want to know what did the president say to all of those people about the russia investigation. What did he ask them to do . Who did he ask them to intervene with, and why . What did he tell them abo why he was firing jim comey . All those people are going to have to decide do they want to take a risk for donald trump that they lie, that they perjure themselves and spend many years in jail for him. I want to be clear about the stakes here because in some ways, much of the Current Issue started with Michael Flynn apparently lying to federal
investigators who asked him about his calls with sergey kislyak. And that is a felony. I mean people get prosecuted for lying to federal investigators. And just to be clear here, my sense is that that obtains here, right . I mean this is an fbi investigation. If hes going to you, dan coats, or whoever, if you are lying to him or not telling the truth under penalty of criminal sanction . Thats absolutely right. If you lie to an fbi vector, ine investigator, and you lie on the grand jury and they can prove it, you will go to jail. Theres another problem for white house aides and Senior Administration officials that regular people in the private sector dont have which is, you and i, if the fbi comes to you and wants to talk about something, we can decline to cooperate. Thats not tenable for a senior white house staff. Its generally thought that you cannot take the fifth amendment and continue to serve in a senior government position. I assume that will still be the case in this administration. I will assume if people arent willing to cooperate with the
fbi, if theyre taking the fifth inside the grand jury, they have to leave the government. We should be clear that is the constitutional protection of anyone, and that pertains to anyone in the white house. No one can be compelled or forced to testify at the risk of selfincrimination. Yeah. Everyone has that right, but not everyone has the right to work in a senior position in the u. S. Government. Right. And theres two avenues here, both of which ty appear to have been trying to avoid, both of which would be escalations from a kin of p. R. Perspective. The invocation formally of Executive Privilege to hide people, stop them from testifying, or pleading the fifth. Both of those would be very problematic for the headlines they would create. Yeah. Well, lets just play that out in one very obvious exam. So Jeff SessionsWouldnt InvokeExecutive Privilege yesterday but its clear thats where he was going. Hes the head of the Justice Department obviously. If the fbi comes and wants to do an interview with Jeff Sessions and he declines to do that interview because of this Executive Privilege claim either informal or because the president formally invokes it,
thats an extremely awkward position for the Attorney General. It would force bob mueller to subpoena him to the grand jury and force an exclusive Privilege Showdown Where Mueller would go to an Appellate Court and argue that the need for criminal information trumps Executive Privilege. That is what courts have held in the past in water and recently in the 90s. That is the pandoras box they would be opening by that invocation. Matt miller, thanks for your time. Im joined by Hakeem Jeffries and Leonard Nance of new jersey. Im so glad youre here. Im so glad youre safe. Obviously everyone in the country is pulling for your colleague, Steve Scalise and all the people that were injured today. Theyre in our thoughts. Theyve been in our thoughts all day. I want to talk about the wrenching day you had, but i want to start with this news and start with you Congressman Lance. The president of the United States, it appears, is currently under personal Criminal Investigation by the special counsel. Whats your reaction to that news . I support mr. Mueller in his
investigation, and i think that he will do a fine job and a thorough job and let the chips fall where they may. What do you mean by let the chips fall where they may . I want toee the report from mr. Mueller, and i assume it will be a complete report. And i presume it will involve all aspects of this situation, chris. The fact you support him, and then congressman jeffries, ill get your response as well. The fact you support him, i just want to be clear because there are many members of congress, republicans who have called Into Question his integrity, whether hes unbiased. Louie gohmert, who say colleague of yours, referred to him as dirty. Youre saying you dont agree with that characterization. You trust him . I do trust mr. Mueller. I was the first republican in congress to say that Attorney General sessions should recuse himself in any matter regarding russia, and i think that the appointment of mr. Mueller by the Deputy Attorney general, in his capacity as acting Attorney General, was an excellent appointment. All right. Congressman jeffries, the
president s central line has been the president is not under personal investigation. That appears to no longer be operative. What does that mean to you . Well, as leonard said, first of all, bob mueller is a talented launch professional. Hes respected by democrats and republicans, and im confident that he will follow the facts wherever that may lead. It is an Extraordinary Development in a year of Extraordinary Developments h and it is following the typical rhythm of a washington scandal. You know, theres the potential crime, in this case, possible collusion between russian spies and members of the Trump Campaign team. And then theres always the concern about coverup. In this particular instance, its now gone all the way up to the top at 1600 pennsylvania avenue, and theres a legitimate question that the American People deserve answers to as to whether President Donald Trump engaged in Obstruction Of Justice or abuse of power. So to follow up on that, theres reporting from the New York Times the president was seriously considering firing Robert Mueller. Just now in the wake of this news, his son, who is obviously a noted advocate on behalf of his father, retweeting someone calling for the investigation to be shut down. What do you see as your constitutional duty as a member of congress should the president try to take steps to shut down this inquiry at this point . Well, i think the Judiciary Committee that i serve on, along with the Intelligence Committee both in the house and the senate, have an obligation to continue to make sure that we conduct a thorough, independent congressional investigation. I support an independent commission for that purpose so that we can ultimately get to the bottom of what happened in terms of the underlying potential crime of collusion as well as any attempts to cover it up. And hopefully this is not an issue of partisan politics. This is an issue of, you know, americs coming together regardless of whetheroure democrats or republicans to ensure theres a full, fair, and independent investigation and that theres no interference with what the Special Prosecutor is doing on behalf of the American People. Congressman lance, to you, is
it important for republicans on the hill to send the signal whether publicly or privately to the white house that republicans on the hill would not stand for attempts to end this investigation or to remove mueller . Yes. I think it is, and ive sent that message through this program this evening. I do not think mr. Mueller should be discharged. Dr chris, one wonder whos would discharge him. I would imagine it would have to be the Deputy Attorney general, and i would imagine the Deputy Attorney general would not do that given his testimony recently here on the hill. Yeah. Of course thats correct. It would be the Deputy Attorney general. He said he wanted in nixons case, he fired people until he got someone who would. I want to turn now to what happened today. It was horrifying. I think everyone feels shaken having worked on capitol hill as a reporter there, i know how much everyone is sort of in each others space all the time. How are you feeling, congressman
lance, about what happened today, and what has the atmosphere been like in that building today . Its been very somber, very sad. Of course we were all horrified in a bipartisan capacity on the events this morning. I know Steve Scalise. I know him relatively well, and i thought that the remarks at the lunch hour by speaker ryan and democratic leader pelosi were eloquent. I thought the speaker was particularly eloquent, and i think were coming together in this matter, and i hope of course that this never occurs again. And i think it demonstrates, chris, that we have to try to work together, listen to other people o the oer side of the island, and work in what is the greategood for the american nation. Congressman jeffries, if im not mistaken, youre playing in this softball game tomorrow night. Its a great Baseball Game. Its a great tradition. You know, it has always struck
me its a great thing about america that even post9 11, as security is ramped up in lots of places, members of congress are still accessible and approachable, and you can talk to them, and sometimes you can see them in washington getting a cup of coffee, or they might be in your district. How important is it to maintain that . Extremely important. This is a Representative Democracy of course, chris. And as a result of that, the people need to be able to talk to their representatives, share their thoughts, their feelings, their concerns, and petition their government, which is their First Amendment right. Its essential to the functioning and the integrity of our democracy, and so i think despite the shocking developments, the sadness, the surrealness of the day, that democrats and republicans remain committed to that responsibility that we have to serve the people that we represent and to be accessible. I do think that there will probably be a reevaluation as to some of the security procedures, particularly whenever large groups of members of congress get together such as at the republican baseball
practice. Hopefully also, chris, this will be a moment of clarity for the left and for the right, for democrats, republicans, for the white house, for congress, for people inside the beltway and outside the beltway that we all should rethink about the need to dial down the rhetoric. We can disagree without being disagreeable. Congressman, youre nodding your head, and i saw members coming out of the closeddoor briefing today, republican and democrat, talking about their feelings of threat, the rise in death threats, the sort of atmosphere of the country at this time. Do you feel like youre under threat . Um, ive held four town Hall Meetings in the last two and a half months, and we had a good deal of security at the town Hall Meetings. I dont feel threatened, but im certainly pleased that there is security. I agree with hakeem that i think when there are 10 or 15 members of congress, in the futur