The solution to Mass Shootings always is surrendering civil liabilities. Having one armed guard on every floor of every school. When all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. President trump spent the day shuttling between the sites of the two latest gun massacres in america and hurling juvenile insults at his political opponents while in transit from one to the other. After a stop in dayton, trump then visited el paso, texas, where the shooter expressed his explicit intent to target and kill hispanics to stop what he called an invasion, echoing the exact same word the president himself has used repeatedly. This afternoon democratic president ial frontrunner Vice President joe biden gave a speech in which he pointed out the insidious double game the president likes to play. Is both clear language and in code. This president has fanned the flames of White Supremacy in this nation. His low energy, vacanteyed mouths of the words written for him condemning White Supremacists this week i dont believe fooled anyone. Its not just the president who spews hate and racist fearmongering without dealing with the consequences, its trump tv as well, specifically Tucker Carlson doing the exact same thing, though admittedly with a defter touch night after white supremacist is a ziomedia conspiracy theory. Diversity is a threat, immigrants are invading and turns to say with a straight face, White Supremacy, what White Supremacy . If you were to assemble a list, a hierarchy of concerns of problems this country face, where would White Supremacy be on the list . Right up there with russia, probably. Its actually not a real problem in america. The combined membership of every White Supremacist Organization in this country would be able to fit inside a football stadium. Carlson, like the president that he apologizes for, knows what hes doing. In this case its a clumsy little bait and switch in which he argues the only problem are the relatively small numbers of people who are members of a White Supremacist Organization. But as far as we know the killer in el paso was wasnt a member of an organization and the killer at the synagogue at pittsburgh wasnt a member on an organization. Scream at this to go back to their country, who berate people in gas stations because theyre speaking spanish, those people arent members of organizations. The problem isnt White Supremacists as some distinct category that only includes david duke. It is the ideology to which the president and Tucker Carlson himself subscribe, which is that those people dont belong in this country, that its not theirs, that diversity is a threat, that white people are being replaced. Now, i should say in carlsons defense, its not an act. He really believes these things. If you want a textbook definition of what overt White Supremacy looks like, its this. How could you salvage iraq at this point . I dont you know, its beyond our control. If somehow the iraqis decided to behave like human beings or something. Iraq is a crappy place filled with a bunch of, you know, semi literal primitive monkeys. But i have zero sympathy for them or their culture, a culture where people dont use toilet paper or works. Subliteral primitive monkeys. Its not people with swastika tattoos or white hoods that are the problem, its the belief system that this is a country for white people and white people are better than nonwhite people. An act of violence of mass murder in support of that ideology like the massacre in el paso creates real waves of fear throughout the country, far surpassing the one who did it. In the wake of this, people are coming forward with their stories of harassment and intimidation and fear that is flowing from this racist ideology. One latina immigrant telling the New York Times it feels like being hunted. Its the ideology that is being pumped into the minds of the viewers of that show on trump tv every night. Joining me now are anna Maria Archuleta working for racial justice. Michelle goldberg and an msnbc political analyst. Jelani cobb, staff writer at the new yorker and professor of journalism at Columbia University school of journalism. I guess i start with the ripple effects of what happened in el paso. I just have been really struck reading accounts in newspapers and on twitter and talking to people through other means that its not just the 22 people who were killed or the dozens more who are injured, its that it does send a message which was intended by the violence. Absolutely. Ill tell you a story. I have a colleague. Her name is sylvia. She is from chicago. Her family is mexicanamerican several generations. Her mother has to get her medication at walmart, and she told sylvia this morning that she was afraid to go to walmart. That is exactly what the person who shot 22 people in the walmart in el paso intended. That is exactly the kind of fear that President Trump wants to send to our communities when he says this is an invasion. We will round them up. We will send them home. We will separate their families. We will put them in cages. It is exactly that message is being receive beside i the people who have the guns and are going to shoot regular folks who are doing their daily Business Inside a walmart and by the communities who are being terrorized. President trump made a point of making antiimmigrant xenophobic rhetoric the centerpiece and the centerpiece of his Political Program which is a White Nationalist program. Its a program thats intended to terrorize and exclude from power, from economic and Democratic Power communities of color. Not just immigrants, not just latinos. He went on to do the muslim ban. Yes. Every African American. Every step. Every African American in every city is living in rat infested hell hole. African American Communities in particular. He has a very deliberate Political Program that is centered on keeping white men like him in power. Not to the benefit of all white men in this country, but to the benefit of a very small slice of our population, the richest, the wealthiest, the corporate elite. That is his program. Terrorize people so we keep our hands in our pockets and their hold on the power and democracy. I was just going to say i wrote it just so happened that monday was the sentencing of cesarsayoc, who is the terrorist who sent out bombs. Its so interesting when you read the defense memo that they submitted for sentencing for why the judge should go easy on him. And it was all about how look, he just believed the president , right . He just watched fox news and he believed the president and he wasnt savvy enough to pick up when they meant it and when they didnt, you know. He thought that democrats were going to hurt trump supporters, were threatening. Words dangerous as they are painted every day in trumps speeches and on Tucker Carlson. And he took it seriously. And you cant imagine a sentence. You cant imagine that being an affirmative defense in any other kind of political context. Right. Nobody could say if there was a somebody shot a policeman. You couldnt imagine a comp tnt lawyer saying, well, he was just listening to barack obama, right . Because those messages arent there. Theyre not being transmitted. Right. Yes. And that is also not the only one. The men that planned the mosque attack in kansas as far as i can tell also had similar sentencing filings look, they listened to the president , listened to fox news. There is policy behind this. There is a piece from cnn today about the white house rebuffing attempts to make combatting domestic terrorism a higher priority. Dhs saying there are these warning bells going off, that director wray saying it the other day, Christopher Wray in front of a hearing, and then rebuffing it. There is more than just words here. Sure. The House Homeland Security committee has those hearings i guess was about two months ago now. And one of the things they pointed out again and again and again was when democrats were in the minority, they had consistently requested that there be hearings on the rise of they called it domestic terror, which was their way of avoiding the racial designation of white nationalism. So whatever category you want to put it in, but domestic terror had been something they had been trying to get on the agenda, and the republicans that refused to touch it. And so it wasnt until democrats actually became a majority that they actually were able to have these hearings take place. But going back for a second to the thing about Tucker Carlsons point about the stadium. It is a very curious kind of absolution. There were nine hijackers. It mobilized the entire infrastructure of massive Political Economic military power that the United States has. All of the people in the caravan that they were raising so much alarm about, you could have fit those people in a football stadium. But now this group of people who are tied to the most recent spate of violence against americans, people losing their lives, innocent people being shot down and being haunted by the image of that woman covering her 2monthold baby with her own body. So were now expecting citizens to display battlefield levels of valor to protect their children, all of this gets washed away under the banner of well, there are only a handful of these people. We could fit them all in a stadium. As were going to form a brigade and go marching to the streets. I dont think you could fit all of the existing members of isis into a stadium. I dont think you could fit all of the members of al qaeda into a stadium. It would have been preposterous if anybody had ever made that argument as a reason to discount the threat. Another thing that Christopher Wray said is not only domestic terrorism up or domestic terrorist arrests up in 2019 as opposed to 2018, but the vast majority of them are right wing right nationalists domestic terrorist. Its not just democrats are out here saying that this is a threat. It is the head of the fbi saying that. And then there is other people in the fbi daying that they have been stymied in making some of these arrests or doing some of these investigations because there is a political problem with targeting people that the president of the United States is likely to regard as part of his base. Well, here is michael savidge, who is a friend of the president and rightwing radio said. He was very disappointed in the president attacking White Supremacy. It will cost him tens of thousands of votes. There is this real gas lighty thing. I was reminding myself in charlottesville where he came out and did this halfhearted thing and said both sides and read another statement and then game out again and erased and that said there is fine people on both sides. He is sending the message he wouldnt condemn david duke for a long time. He pretended he didnt know him. Because its and the to send a message to those folks. He built his entire political career on the idea that there are people who are superior to others, that there are people not human, that can be treated as inferior beings, and it worked. And so theyre saying we must double down on this message. Well must double down on we are we are sending the messages and people are receiving them and they are turning out to vote. So President Trump is very he is a grown man, but he is a very intelligent man. I know, its a terrible thing to say about trump, but he is a very astute politician who has been able to subvert the kind of status quo of the Republican Party and create a kind of political discourse that we had not seen in this country. And if and i think it is important to talk about the organizations that are growing that the fbi needs to take seriously. It is important to label these acts of terrorism, but we cannot just stop there because the reality is that under the underbelly of this country is one of entire denial about the fact that this country was built on a hierarchy of human life. And if we are not able to name that and recognize that and actually have the conversations that incredibly difficult to have, we are going to continue to see not only these forms of violence, but democracy that becomes a ghost of what it was or what it can be, and we will never have the promise of this country. The promise of this country is one of constant struggle or the history of this country is constant struggle of inclusion, for more of us to be included in the promise of freedom and democracy. And trump represents a resistance to that idea, that people of color can actually be part of the center of this country, that we can share power together, that women can control our bodies and decide our destinies. That gay and lesbian and transgendered people are equal. They are resisting each and every single one of these things. And the history there, that you noted, the department of justice exists first as a kind of functional bureaucratic move. But the first thing the department of justice does is attempt to bring the klan to heel in the south. The department of justice, the first thing tasked. The first, the first antiterrorism law in American History, the klan control act. So when we talk about this, especially going back to the 9 11 thing, this is the first incidence of terrorism in the United States, a lot of people said that after 9 11, people were no, no, no, no, no. The first incident of terrorism in this country that was designated as terrorism was these ad hoc organizations in the south that had set out to reverse emancipation. Thats where we start this conversation. There have always been white men like Tucker Carlson in this country, and theyve always occupied a particular niche, to serve as denial for people to be allowed to think they are the kind of great shimmering republic without any blemish whatsoever. And to say this is how we have slavery protected in the constitution that never mentions the words negro or slavery, to euphemismize it. So we began gas lighting the u. S. Constitution. And we extend that, extrapolate that out to what Tucker Carlson is doing right now. We know what that is. And deep down the people hes talking to know what that is too. Everyone knows. But this is rather implausible deniability. And thats what he is selling. Implausible denight. Ana radaria are chill la, jelani could be, thank you. Next, what can be done about the breeding ground for white supremacist terror in one of the most nefarious communities, in two minutes. These folks dont have time to go to the post office they use stamps. Com all the services of the post office only cheaper get a 4week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps. Com tv and never go to the post office again. In just the past five months, there have been throw different Mass Shootings in which the killers believed to posted a screed to 8 chan. 8chan encourages people to embrace infamy. Conceived as the ultimate free speech zone, it grew in stature when it was adopted by people kicked off 4chan for being too toxic for that site which many considered toxic itself. It drew a seething hive of pedophiles and White Supremacists, some who pushed for violence, encouraging shooters to try to get the high score by killing a larger number of people than previous mass murderers. Now the vast majority of people on these boards are just there for an elicit thrill. But it can have a real radicalizing effect. The rise of white terrorism and the rise of the islamic state. It be hard to get rid of a site like 8chan. After the massacre, cloud fare severed ties but may return. Writing while removing 8chan from our Network Takes heat off of us, it does nothing to address why hateful sites fest erion line. It does nothing to address why mass shooting occur, why portions of the population feel so disenchant theyd turn to hate. Joining me Jessica Gonzalez calling on big tech to prohibit White Supremacists, and kevin ruse for the New York Times. Kevin, let me start with you on the broad point made by the cloudfare which is its kind of whacamole. Taking away Web Hosting Services or deplatforming really vile elements of the internet white supremacist areas pushes it to some other site. What do you think about that contention . I dont think its a perfect formula, chris, but i actually think its incredibly effective to deplatform these vile, racist dehumanizing sites that are allowing White Supremacists to recruit, fund, and normalize bigotry. 8chan is a really weird place. You wrote a profile of the founder of it who now says it should be shut down. Where did it come from and why is it like this . Litter off of 4chan which is another kind of famously lawless message board. In 2013, its founder frederick brennan, who was the founder of the board adult virgins decided it was too restrictive on 4chan, so he was going to start a free speech utopian alternative to 4chan where any number of people could post anything they wanted to with basically no rules or moderation at all. And it kind of struggled for a little while, and then it got a gift in 2014 when a group of people affiliated with the Gamer Move