Coronavirus on thanksgiving when all in starts right now. Good evening from new york. Im chris hayes. The states that comprise this Glorious Union of ours are beginning to certify their Election Results. Delaware was the first, certifying last week that joe biden won their three electoral votes. Yesterday vermont certified bid bidens win for another three votes. South dakota and oklahoma certified wins for President Trump totaling 10 electoral votes. Today trumps wins in wyoming and South Carolina were also certified adding another 12 electoral votes in the president s column. You will notice president s arent clieing voter fraud in any of these states. Theyre only focused on spreading that toxic lie in states they think will help them unseat the democratically elected government. But as we watched the Election Results being certified, this process will go on through december. And as we think about what happened in this election, its an opportunity for all of us to take a step back and marvel at the fact that this is an enormous, complicated country that quite literally contains multitudes. 72 Million People voted for donald trump, and 77 million and counting that will go up voted for joe biden in the tallying completed so far. And all of us, trump voters and biden voters, we share this country together with each other. What it means to be american is to share this place, this land that spans from california to wyoming to delaware with all kinds of political persuasions, and what it means to love your country. The best form of patriotism is that you love your country not because its better than other countries. You love it the same way you love your family, because its yours. And you fight for it because its yours. And this country, our country we all share together, is in unbelievable distress right now. What do all of those states that have already certified their Election Results, with the exception of vermont, have in common . Theyre all part of this great nation where coronavirus is running rampant. In delaware, south dakota, oklahoma, wyoming, and South Carolina, new cases are higher, and they are staying high. In delaware, new cases are up more than 80 over the last two weeks. And in wyoming coronavirus cases are up over 100 . Look at that curve there. Black americans and white americans and latino americans, indigenous americans, liberal americans, conservative americans, rural americans, urban americans are all being thrashed by this virus. What would a patriotic government that cared about its own people be doing right now . Well, you think for a second about what you would be doing for a loved one in your family, if someone you loveds, cared for were in a hospital, receiving very obviously substandard care, neglected, left to essentially care for themselves as they were eaten away by a plague. You would not tolerate it, and you sure as hell wouldnt say, well, if you take a step back, yes, this hospital performs in the lowest tenth percentile in the state, but there are people who have it worse. And running a hospital is hard. What can do you . Who can blamed them . If my loved one diezs, my loved one dies. Its a tough problem to figure out. No, thats not how it works. You fight for the people you love, and you fight for the country you love, and we fight for american lives. This is where we are right now. These are the ten countries in the world with the highest deaths per Million People. Now, youll notice some very tiny little countries with very smalldy nominators like san marino and andorra are in there. But even with them, were the tenth worst country in the world, right after bolivia. There are more than 150 countries doing better than us. This is what making America Great again looks like in reality. Tenth worst in the world. And there are conservatives and republicans running around like, well, you know, spains worst. Well, you know what . We dont live in spain, do we . We live in the United States of america. We live in our country, our home. We should be demanding the best of our country and our leadership. But instead this corrupt, defeated government has surrendered. This is what the map from covid exit strategy looks like right now. Every state in the country except vermont and maine seeing uncontrolled spread of the virus. This graph shows new reported cases by day nationwide. New cases are so high that they dwarf the previous two spikes we saw this summer. The country is on fire, and its not an accident. This is the Trump Administrations current policy, what you are seeing. And if you dont believe me, take a look at this republican rally today in georgia. Headlined not by donald trump. Forget about donald trump. Just the normal republicans, headlined by senators marco rubio and Kelly Loeffler to drum up support for the Runoff Senate elections. Crowds of people indoors, many not wearing masks, packed into that room at the cobb county republican headquarters. Republicans have their eyes on the prize, and thats not defeating the virus, and thats not saving your loved ones from dying in the plague but trying to secure a senate majority. We also got more news today of more people obviously testing positive for coronavirus in the latest white house outbreak. People who were in that big Election Night party, again, inside around each other without masks. This is not rocket science. We now hoe this goes. Brian jack, healey bum gardner, they were both there at that Election Night party. I wish both of them the best the way that i do every american who is being sickened by this thing. If we had a government that cared for its people, it would be fighting for us right now. It would be at the very least the very least. This doesnt take a bill of congress or an executive action. The least. The literal least they could do would be sending out messages every day to the 72 Million People who voted for donald trump, the tens of millions of people who love the man and trust him, telling those people howthy can keep themselves and their family safe and the ref of us safe. Telling them what to do this thanksgiving. But theyre not doing that. They cannot be bothered. The president s sulking and watching golf and cable news. And the rest of the Republican Party, the whole party, complicit in all this, focused on the georgia runoff and maybe overturning the results of a democratic election to stay in power against the peoples will. But if they love their country, they should start acting like it. Dr. Michael osterholm is one of the people we should all be listening to right now. Hes the director of the center for Infectious Disease research and policy at the university of minnesota and a member of president elect joe bidens transition covid19 advisory board. I guess well start with a checkin on where we are although you just run out offagektives to say horrible. One of the things that jumped out at me in the covid tracking numbers is the hospitalizations. Cases are somewhat depend end on testing. Hospitalizations are up 30 in a week. Were smashing through the alltime record which had been at 60,000. Were at 65,000. What does that mean in real terms for the system . Well, i think the challenge we have before us right now is, one, dealing just with the overflow of cases were seeing in many hospitals around the country. But more importantly, planning for whats coming. Chris, we could easily go far north of 200,000 cases a day, which means that we could be talking about another 40 to 80 of cases above what we have. Thats the challenge before us right now. Lets talk about in more granular terms about Hospital Capacity. Yep. The first time this thing blew through the world in this country, Hospital Capacity was the main fixed variable ha their eyes on. We have seen when hospitals become overwhelmed that fatality rate goes up. One of the things that has happened is the fatality rate has gone down as weve gotten better at treating them. What is going to happen in these hospitals and what are we up against in terms of capacity where you have intense localized outbreaks . You know, capacity is often measured in number of beds and thats actually a misnomer in terms of how prepared you are to respond. Its the ability to actually recruit the kind of expert medical people that you want, the people who have intensive care experience. And when we had the original big peak in new york last march and april and then we had the peak this summer in florida, georgia, arizona, texas, and california, we actually moved people around the country to help go into those areas and support that kind of expertise. We cant do that right now because everybodys a house on fire. So one of the real challenges were going to have is were going to be seeing more and more care provided by hospitalists, family practitioners, et cetera, all physicians, nurses, et cetera who are doing their very best, but theyre not intensivists. Theyre not the doctors and nurses and respiratory therapist teams that work in intensive care. That means for certain the actual percentage of patients dying who are in these hospitals will increase. The Hoover Institution affiliated radiologist who has been running essentially point for the nations response, a guy by the name of scott atlas, hes been pretty clear and the president s been pretty clear. At a certain point they pivoted to let the virus go wild and focus on therapeutics in hospital settings to reduce fatalities there and protecting vulnerable populations. I guess my question is those therapeutics the president promised everyone when he got out of the hospital that everyone would have and have cheaply, like is that the case . Well, the problem we have right now with the therapeutics that actually hold the most promise for having some impact in terms of new ones treating covid are the monoclonal antibodies. And we know that those antibodies have to be given in the very earliest hours of ones clinical illness. And when youre a company that you have 50,000 doses on hand and you can only make x amount and youre seeing 100,000 cases a day or more, and then you have to figure out whos going to get it, where are they going to be infused because they have to be infused with this monoclonal antibody, it just doesnt work. So one of the challenges we have is its not just enough to say you have a drug that might keep you from becoming severely ill, but how would you ever use it . And thats the challenge were seeing right now. The president , ben carson, apparently others have had access to these sort of cuttingedge treatments. Thats not widely available. Theres a capacity issue. Theres also this idea, and weve seen it, and we knew it wouldnt work, so youll forgive me if a get a little angry talking about this. That theres a universe in which you can let the virus go wild, and it stays out of longterm care facilities, that you protect vulnerable populations. Again, covid tracking is showing its all over longterm care facilities now. Like what do we do now . Well, the challenges and the fallacy of that whole theory about developing herd immunity by letting it just run willynilly was that how do you bubble up 40 of our Adult Population that have increased body mass indexes that puts them at risk for serious disease . All the underlying conditions that exist. Then for that matter, transmission. Youre a single mom. You have two young kids. You live in an apartment with your mother, and youre an sean worker. You have to go to work every day just to make sure you have a roof over their heads. How do you bubble that person when they come home to be with their mother and their two children . That just doesnt work. So were always realized that that is not the answer is to just try to bubble up those that are at high risk. As you point out, you know, the people who work in longterm care facilities, they go home to those same situations. And so it is a real challenge. You cant bubble it up. Weve got to do what we can to stop transmission throughout the entire community. So we have seen in the eu countries announce another round of shelter in place orders. Some of them less stringent than the first one. What im watching policymakers in the u. S. Do and this is republican and democrat is essentially try to balance two impossible competing imperatives. Governor cuomo saying today were going to start closing restaurants at 10 00 and gyms at 10 00. And people say, well, does covid clock out at 9 59 . What exactly is going on here . The rationale is here, and i see it, these businesses are all hanging on by a thread. Theres no more federal support coming right now, and so they dont want to be the ones to snip out the last part of their lifeline. So what were getting out of these half measures that attempt to kind of combat transmission and kind of keep the businesses alive. And my question to you is, is that enough and is that going to work . You know, it doesnt work for either one. Thats the problem. You know, i published an oped back in early august in the New York Times with the president of the Minneapolis Federal reserve bank, and he brought his economic expertise. I brought my epidemiologic expertise. We said in that piece that what were seeing right now would happen. We said the only way to stop that is to learn from what the Asian Countries did, where they really locked down and i hate that term. If you interview 50 people today and ask them what a lockdown is, you get 75 different answers. The point being is what we were talking about is today in this country the savings rate has grown dramatically during the pandemic. Rather than 8 of personal income being saved, its up to 20some percent. We could actually borrow all of that money thats sitting in our banks at historic low Interest Rates and use that as a stimulus to actually pay people who are being hurt by losing their work, pay Small Businesses so that they wouldnt suffer. We could actually take care of cities, states, and counties, keep them whole. And you know what . Then we could do what they did in asia. Look at what they did in and dont tell me its just the authoritarian countries. I realize new zealand and australia are both islands but they had real problems going on, and they basically quashed both of them just using Good Public Health methods that we could do if we could get the number of cases down. All right. Dr. Michael osterholm, thank you so much for sharing your time. Come back anytime. Thank you. Tonight in just a few days since the president lost his reelection, why are trump loyalists being installed in important pentagon positions . Well try and get some answers next. These are all great. 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President trump and the vast majority of the Republican Party continue to block the process both by refusing to release the federal funds to officially begin the transition and get folks email addresses and office space and all that, and by outright denying that joe biden has won an election he clearly has won. The Trump Administration isnt just refusing to move forward. They are also actively moving trump loyalists into positions of power within the department of defense. On sunday night, mark esper, a man appointed by the president , was still the secretary of defense. His chief of staff was jen stewart, former Top Republican staffer on the House Armed Services committee. His undersecretary of defense of policy was james anderson, an academic and former marine. And his undersecretary of defense for intelligence was joseph kiernan, a former s. E. A. L. Team commander. That was the leadership team. Just days later, all those people are gone. They are replaced instead by a whos who of trump loyalists and hatchet men. The acting secretary of defense chris mill irwas moved from the National Counterterrorism center, jumping the deputy secretary of defense in a move that may not be legal. His chief of staff is now kash patel, which may ring some bells. A former white house staffer and aide to none other than congressman devin nunes, who crafted a dubious memo denounced by the fbi to discredit the origins of the investigation into trump teams contacts with russia. The man listed as performing the duties of under