Transcripts For MSNBCW All In With Chris Hayes 20201212 : vi

On what the decision means for the country, and the grave danger of this moment, regardless of the courts findings. Plus, as the president threatens the fda, what we know about vaccine authorization with a member of that fdaAdvisory Panel. Then, more cabinet picks for the president elect. New concerns over his reluctance to use executive power. All in starts right now. Good evening, from new york, im chris hayes. Tonight, we saw, yet another, legal defeat for donald trump and the Republican Party. This time, in the highest court in the land, Supreme Court. Overwhelming, humiliating rebuke. We are going to talk about that, in just a minute. But, of course, that news comes, in the midst of the worst humanitarian crisis the u. S. Has faced in, arguably, 100 years. President trump and the Republican Party are staging their fullscale attack on democracy, even as they collectively allow a 9 11s worth of covid deaths, every single day. In fact, the head of the cdc warned, yesterday, the u. S. Will probably see more deaths from covid than on 9 11, every single day, for the next two to three months. A 9 11, every single day, for two to three months. That would mean around 180,000 to 270,000 more dead americans by the end of march. Today, we set a new case record, again, and almost 3,000 deaths. And yet and yet and yet, one of the two major parties has devoted all of its energy and resources to the most brazen assault on american democracy, in living memory. And tonight, they got their butts handed to them in the Supreme Court in a clear repudiation, as expected. The court, which, of course, includes six republicannominated justices basically finding against trump. But ultimately, as many legal experts predicted, they determined the plaintiffs, and i quote here, had not demonstrated a judicially cognizable interest in a manner in which another state conducts its elections. In other words, they had no case. They had no standing. Get out of here. Thing is, there were at least 20 republicanled states attorneys general and 126 republican members of congress. Almost twothirds of the entire gop caucus, including, the tophouse republicans in the house, Kevin Mccarthy and steve scalise, supporting this lawsuit to overturn the election. It was a lawsuit, just to remind everyone, right, to basically declare donald trump the president , despite the fact he lost by seven and a half million votes and multiple states. It is a lawsuit it was a lawsuit. Not to put too fine a point on it, to destroy the union. Im not being hyperbolic here. The remedy republicans were asking for was to, essentially, stay the votes of the electors in four states that voted for joe biden. Pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan, and georgia. Not let those electors vote for joe biden. And have republicanled legislatures vote for donald trump. Even though donald trump lost, he was he got viewer votes. He didnt win those states. And that would mean the election would be overturned and donald trump would remain the president. And if you live in a country where the state apparatus can successfully overturn an election to keep the ruling regime in power, even when it loses, you do not live in a democracy. You live in a dictatorship. And should the Supreme Court have declared the u. S. A dictatorship, what if this had had worked . How do you think the american citizenry would react . Republicans, the ones who like to wave around the flag, waving the patriotic stars and bars of our founders who fought against british tyranny for selfrule. How should the American People react to the State Government invalidating the peoples choice . How do you think they would react . What would have happened in this country, if this lawsuit had won . I think its pretty clear that, if it had won, and, again, it didnt, it lost, thank goodness, right . But, if it had won, it would have represented the worst crisis for the country since secession and i dont think thats an overstatement. Its not just me. This is part of an impassioned plea that democratic senator murphy made, today. Today, on the floor of the United States senate. Right now, the most serious attempt to overthrow our democracy, in the history of this country, is underway. Those who are pushing to make donald trump president , for a second term, no matter the outcome of the election, are engaged in a treachery against their nation. You cannot, at the same time, love america and hate democracy. But, as we speak, a whole lot of flagwaving republicans are nakedly trying to invalidate millions of legal votes because that is the only way that they can make donald trump president , again. Now, of course, legally, the lawsuit was complete garbage. Okay . Garbage. The suit and all the friends of the court briefs that went along with it, that were filed on its behalf, they were filled with lies and bad faith and misreadings of the law and, like, ridiculous, embarrassing typos. I mean, today, new nevada and New California join the lawsuit. And if you are scratching your head and saying i didnt know those were states. Youre not wrong. They arent real states. Somehow, they got in there. At one level, right, again, we have been saying this for months. At one level, this is clownish buffoonery. But, at another level, it is very desperately, desperately dangero dangerous and serious. I was trying to think about how to characterize it, today, because it has both these qualities. To me, its the constitutional equivalent of someone walking up to someone else. Maybe, someone theyre having an argument with. With a loaded. 9 millimeter weapon and pulling the trigger. Nothing happens, in the end. The safety is on. But, what is that . Is it a prank . Is it a bluff . No, its a threat. They are holding a loaded gun to american democracy with this lawsuit. Just because the safety is on now, doesnt mean it will not fire the next time. And at some level, i do think, and this is this is i guess me going out of my way to be charitable to people thrown in with this tawdry, treacherous undertaking. At some level, i do think the vast majority of republicans see this as political posturing. I think, part of the reason so many republicans have signed on is because they think they arent playing with live ammunition. And they joined what pennsylvania probably correctly characterized the seditious abuse of the court system because they know they will not face any political backlash. Certainly, not within the party. And not with voters, probably. Trump voters, certainly, will not punish them. And that includes the two georgia senators who are asking their own voters votes to be thrown out. And it includes the 12 members of the states involved who are republicans, who are elected by the same votes they want to throw out, and who now want to go serve in congress. Figure that one out. Joe biden and barack obama and many others said that this last election was a referendum on democracy, itself. And because a majority of people agreed with them, and ghok demo won, now, republicans want to override the majority. They lost a referendum on democracy. And now, the Republican Party has thrown in, against democracy, itself. Karl racine is attorney general for washington, d. C. He is the president of National Association of attorneys general, who led a coalition of 23 attorneys general opposing the texas lawsuit trying to overturn the election. First of all, i guess, mr. Racine, your your your reaction to the courts ruling . Chris, im not surprised by the ruling of the United States Supreme Court. I think, if people have been watching over the last four years, state and federal judges, including, the United States Supreme Court, have been the backbone of the American Democratic experiment and the checks and balances. The court did the right thing, today, in resoundingly rejecting what is the biggest threat, since the civil war, which you cited. And now is the time for leaders to, as president lincoln said, try to bind these wounds. And move our country forward. Theres some thinking. I think, josh shapiro, who is the ag for pennsylvania, in his brief, asked the court, basically, said to the court something along the lines of, you need to rebuke this so strongly that it that it makes clear that, even just filing this was an offense. And i wonder if you think the the kind of nine zero were not taking this, theres no cognizable injury for us to deal with. Does that or would you have preferred some, you know, pro curiam writing from the court saying something about the merits . You know, i am a pingpong player. 70 is a skunk and 90 a profound skunk and it is a profound statement, the biggest statement, the United States Supreme Court can make. And let me just Say Something else. Think about the congress people. You know, and even some of the Republican Ags who are friends of mine. Who joined in this action. Our country is bigger than winni winning, at any cost. And donald trump, surely, is not worth winning, at any cost. Thank you, judges and the United States Supreme Court, for bringing us back to reality, not a realitytv set. Well, how did you i mean, part of whats been so disturbing and i talked to democratic lawyer this week. I talked to dana nessel, who, of course, is ag in the state of michigan, one of the respondents here that was being sued to have their voters votes thrown out, for no reason. You know, i think anyone saw this suit as preposterous. It it it it was advancing a theory that was ridiculous, that could never actually be operationalized. They didnt sue a bunch of states that trump won like North Carolina or texas where the governor unilaterally expanded early voting. Somehow, they escaped a lawsuit there. Yet, serious people, who do this for a living, who are the states attorneys general, with taxpayer resources, joined this. Like, how do you make sense of that . I dont. There is a problem in our country, and obviously, donald trump has fueled it. He didnt create it. I i think there are a host of issues. Of course, you know, the campaignfinance laws in the United States of america mean that, sometimes, the people who we elect arent, necessarily, the best people. Theyre just the best spokesman for moneyed interests. But again, i want to be positive here. I want to focus on a Supreme Court, who is going to decide issues that i disagree with. But, when it comes to democracy, as a haitian immigrant, my family left haiti because of a dictator, who knew nothing of terms of office. Knew nothing of human rights. And, to even allow donald trump to have the dignity of an argument before the United States Supreme Court, again, im really happy that the court skunked donald trump, 90, and stood up for democracy. Lets heal this country. And then, chris, if we talk about democracy from the district of columbia, lets talk about statehood and allowing the district of columbia. And i know, ive seen you interview my congresswoman, Eleanor Holmes norton, many times. Its about time to give a city that, yes, has a history of having a majorityafricanamerican, and thats relevant here, populous the right to have a voice in congress. Statehood. Taxation, without representation. True democracy is what we should be focused on, tonight. So well said. Attorney general for the district of columbia, karl racine, thank you very much. Thank you, chris. During Donald Trumps impeachment trial, earlier this year, the lead house impeachment manager, adam schiff, warned about the danger trump posed to the country if he was allowed to stay in office. And congressman schiff, the chairman of the house intelligence committee, joins me now. Good to have you, chair. Your reaction, i guess, first, to to the court, as expected, dispatching with this attempt . Well, it was the only decision they could make. This wasnt a close call. It wasnt a hard call. It was really no call, at all. What it was is, essentially, an effort to overturn our democracy, dressed up in shabby, legal clothing. So, i dont think the Supreme Court had to work very hard to reach the conclusion it did. What what i find, frankly, so astonishing is that the lawsuit was filed, to begin with. And that, so many of my colleagues in the gop, including, Kevin Mccarthy, would lend their names to this effort to overturn our president ial election. And it makes you wonder, what do these people stand for . I mean, all the things they profess to believe in. All of the constitutional oaths th they took, apparently, are just meaningless to them. The only thing that, apparently, matters is perpetuation of their power. And that is just a a such a danger to the country. And i dont think we can write it off that, well, you know, they they knew this would fail. It was a facesaving gesture. Weve heard enough of that. The damage theyre doing continues to be longlasting. There also i mean, i think this is a calculation. I heard the same and i think part of that was the calculation for some of them. This is again, were not playing with live ammunition here, so who cares . Right . Its an easy way to score some loyalty points. You know, but there there is a real question about i dont know how i guess were all just going to pretend this didnt happen . Like, they tried to overturn an american election. They tried to install someone who lost, into power. They conspired, essentially, to overturn the rightfully, democraticallyelected government of the United States. Im not sure how you come back from that and, like, have a conversation, tomorrow, about the Defense Authorization act. Well, i think youre right. Look, its its like theyre stabbing the body politic but saying were not aiming for vital organs. Theyre doing injury to the country, as it is. Right now, they are creating a permanent set of aggrieved americans, who feel the election was stolen from them. That is lasting damage. Whether they win or lose this lawsuit, whether they expected to lose it or not, these continuing, false claims about the election. This this continuing fallacy that, somehow, millions voted improperly. Its nonsense. The more that they echo this, the more, if it sinks in with a large segment of our neighbors and friends. Its already difficult enough for us to talk with each other, these days, without poisoning the well further. So, you know, i dont i dont know how you look at some of these members the same way, when you have seen them for what they are. And, that is, having no dedication to principle, nothing but ambition. You know, i think one of the deepest debates, institutional, democratic debates that will happen and unfold over the next few months is the question about, essentially, how to save and preserve and expand american democracy. And whether that means fighting Fire Fighting fire with fire, meaning procedural maximalism with procedural maximalism. Or fighting fire with water, meeting procedural maximalism with stewardship, not pursuing that avenue. Nancy pelosi should not seat the people that signed on to this, if they are calling their own election into question. Thats particularly true of the 12 members of the Republican Caucus who are in the states that they have signed on to an amicus brief to invalidate the votes of and i wonder what you think of that . Well, you know, to use your metaphor, i dont think, when the president of the United States and some of my republican colleagues are trying to burn the house down around us. When the president s trying to burn the house down on his way out the door, that we want to set a new fire. So, i dont think thats the answer. You know, we had to deal with those kind of tactics during the campaign. And we fought back but we didnt sink to their level. We fought back and we won. And now, that victory has been upheld in the court and joe biden will be sworn in as president of the United States. So, you know, i think our strategy worked. We dont want to become them. You know, i certainly understand bills frustration. And i think that the the point that he is making is a powerful one. But, i think the remedy is to to make the case to the American People that theyre being betrayed by many of the republican members who said they stood for something. And, as it turns out, dont stand for anything. Helping the country see that. Helping the country see, you know, just how close we are coming to losing our democracy. And why its worth fighting for. You know, i think we, up until this point, chris, we all thought democracy was selfeffectuating. That we could count on the moral arc of the universe bending towards justice, on its own. And we have learned we need to fight for it, every day, and every generation has to undertake the same fight. Congressman adam schiff, thank you so much for joining us tonight. I want to bring into the conversation, someone i really admire, writer i really admire. Staff writer at the atlantic, where he consistently boils down the essence of the Trump Administration. If you didnt vote for trump, your vote is fraudulent. Also, a former member of the White House Coronavirus task force who did a very difficult thing and just spoke out, midcampaign, as someone people didnt know. She wasnt a powerful person. About donald trump and his handling of the pandemic. Olivia troy. Its great to have you both. You know, adam, first, i want you to respond to congressman schiff i i dont have a position on this. I feel torn, myself, about this sort of fire with fire or fire with water, right . Like, do you ratchet up in response . Or do you ratchet down, in response . But, im curious, your thoughts, as you watch